WM - Why does it turn Bard's into DoT Casters?

[ddwarbird]

Hi, I have only just recently started playing Bard and I don't understand that much about it however I have played a LOT of Summoner. My main is a Summoner Lvl 60 however, I have to ask. What the hell is the point of WM on Bards.

Where is Square going with this, I picked Bard's because they are a MOBILE ranged DPS class. However WM turns them nothing more into a glorified Summoner (I really have mixed feelings about the Summoner on this game because they are not really a summoner, just another DOT mage).

Why are Square trying to turn Bard's into physical damage casters and not play to their strengths, one of which is their mobility in combat?

[Rongway]

While you desire mobility, you should understand that the liberty that mobility-focused players take tends to get the rest of us hit unecessarily with AoEs, and we are full glad that bards are encouraged to stand still at later levels. If you move more than it takes to dodge an AoE or handle a mechanic, you are moving too much, and since you can still move at least enough to do those two things even with Minuet on, there is no problem with Wanderer's Minuet once you get the full set of abilities that makes it a damage gain.

[Nekotee]

My answer would be...
À running bard is Cute but not useful
If he want to deal damage WM is the way to go thanks to the huuuuge dmg boost

And as rongway said
On the way to 60 the bard get some strong useful ability that will help him keeping his style while dealing with WM
(Plus some very strong attack only available with WM)

[seekified]

Someone around here once said that if WM makes you move less, you were overmoving the whole time before. It's not meant to be on 100% of the time, but knowing when to move and when to toggle it is an important part of post-50 bardage.

That said, I completely understand the gripe with having your job's play change very drastically and suddenly.

[Cabalabob]

My gripe with WM and GB is that they change brd and mch from their 50 playstyle and there's really no way to go back, these moves are permanent fixtures of the jobs now. People say "oh well, you can just not use them" but no you can't, because they are a damage increase, so you have to choose between doing your job properly or keeping the playstyle you picked the job for and levelled it all the way to 50 for.

brd and mch have turned into what Blm was at 50, Blm has become an even more strict no moving class at 60, but there's no class that is what brd and mch were at 50 anymore.

The best we can hope for is that they will introduce a counter stance, kind of like how WAR got deliverance. Maybe something like mch's rapid fire as a stance that halves the GCD but increases tp costs by 10% so brd and mch can use that and become about fast fire and free movement again but due to the increased speed and tp consumption they'll eat their tp really fast so will have to swap to WM/GB when they get low to conserve it.

[Greedalox]

brd and mch have turned into what Blm was at 50,

I can tell you now this isn't true. Merely an exaggeration in an attempt to push your idea.

[Cabalabob]

I can tell you now this isn't true. Merely an exaggeration in an attempt to push your idea.

It's actually quite an apt comparison if you think about it. Even their rotations are fairly similar.

50 BLM: cast your DoT for DoT procs. Cast your basic spell to proc another spell. Use your big nuke occasionally.
60 BRD: cast your DoTs for DoT procs. Cast your basic arrow to proc another arrow. Use your big arrow occasionally.

BLM cast times at 50 really weren't that strict, much like BRD's cast times aren't that strict now. However, when going to play BLM you know that cast times is what you're getting into. You have them from the start, it's what you're signing on for. With BRD it's tacked on after levelling it to 52. A little late in the job description.

I have the same gripe with the BRD job in general, playing archer you sign on for shooting things not singing, which is why so many BRDs don't use their songs, it's not what you signed on for. Really it just seems the entire class is a big bag of unwanted tricks getting shoved on it.

[Hasrat]

I have the same gripe with the BRD job in general, playing archer you sign on for shooting things not singing, which is why so many BRDs don't use their songs, it's not what you signed on for. Really it just seems the entire class is a big bag of unwanted tricks getting shoved on it.

More to the point, when do most of those early songs ever really shine? They just seem so situational that (personally) they can be totally ignored for the most part.

[Krindor]

snip

It's all due to balance, if BRD had the mobility they had in ARR and the DPS of a regular DPS, do you think anyone would pick different classes? See pre BRD nerf were they were at this level and you would have groups having multiple BRDs. If they dealt less than a regular DPS and had no support, why would you ever pick the class? The only way to input a archer DPS in the same way would be to limit it like a BLM were you got cast times and in that case the classes are too similar anyways.

As for WM, it was added to give the class some kind of skill level as it was a really easy class to play compared to the other classes. What actual use does WM have other than increasing thee skill ceiling? None, if BRDs had the same DPS as they do now but without WM it wouldn't make any difference balance wise. It would only be a really simple class to play.

[Khalithar]

It's all due to balance, if BRD had the mobility they had in ARR and the DPS of a regular DPS, do you think anyone would pick different classes?

I think people would if only because they might not like brd or prefer other classes. That being said however, WM/GB are here to stay and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. But I did want to add another point, the complaint that brd goes from a highly mobile dps that could shoot while dodging telegraphs and then suddenly become a caster class after 52+ levels is a perfectly valid one. It is a rather drastic change in playstyle after playing the class for that long and I do believe that the criticism of not liking that drastic playstyle change after 52+ levels is a perfectly valid one.