Friends of mine, new to the game, becoming discouraged by STORY QUESTS

[Snugglebutt]

They will most likely take out the storyline requirement to enter ishgard so people can go there and get the jobs.

They better not. They need to keep the ARR>HW gating and I explained why I think this couple times in here. I am fine with opening up every piece of new content like cities, zones and such after that gating without requiring the completion of the HW 3.0+ main storyline but the end of ARR into HW one needs to remain so RMT and their armies of bots stay the hell out of those new zones and cities. I hate RMT and bots with a vengeance, they destroyed the enjoyment of leveling and playing a gatherer class in ARR, I am very happy they and their armies are still stuck outside of HW zones and content which is thanks to the forced story gating which included some hard level 50 trials and dungeons as part of that story which they could not just bot their way through.

They could add new future classes to ARR zones instead of HW/future zones plus other game features added to ARR zones and cities but in terms of new cities and zones etc...I think the requirement of passing HW gating aka story and it's more difficult level 50 dungeons/trials should still be required. The current gating works and the RMT bot armies are stuck/trapped in ARR content because they cannot clear all the story and level 50 hard dungeons and trials en masse, likewise the RMT city /say and /shout chat spammers infecting ARR cities also remain locked out of HW cities even if does not stop them sending /tells one by one. It does keep them out and it would be a dumb move to remove that gating, opening up HW and future content to RMT bot infestation like is the case still for ARR zones which they remain trapped in.

I have yet to see a single RMT bot army in HW zones, if SE remove the current gating that would change instantly and HW and future zones would be flooded with them like ARR zones are. I will always and passionately argue against anything that allows that to happen.

[Niwashi]

they will most likely take out the storyline requirement to enter ishgard so people can go there and get the jobs.

Oh, they certainly won't be doing that. To enter Ishgard you need to do the full story that gets you into Ishgard. That's true regardless of whether you want to get there for the questline, dungeons, job unlocks, or just to gather from DoL nodes located there. If they were ever going to allow that, they would have done so from the start (though of course we'd be dealing with a different story in that case).

It's just that the next expansion will have its own separate story requirements that won't include the Ishgard part. (But of course, the next story also won't require unlocking Dark Knight or whichever you're interested in. You'll be able to skip the 2.x patch quests, but only if you're willing to forego everything that's gated behind them, which is all of HW except for the Au Ra race.)

[Niwashi]

I'm positive they will still require you to have HW on your account as Heavensward is required to reach level 60 and 4.0 is likely to increase the level cap from 60 onward and be designed with that increase in mind.

You contradicted yourself there. If (as I agree is most likely) the next expansion raises the level cap again and goes from 60 onward, then it too would give you a level cap raise, and HW will no longer be the only way to get one. ARR goes from 1-50, HW goes from 50-60, lets assume 4.0 goes from 60-70. That would mean someone with just ARR and 4.0 (but not HW) would have a level cap of 70 (which 4.0 gave them), but their content would go from 1-50, then have a gap before it picks up again from 60-70.

That wouldn't be the ideal way to play. Generally, they'd ask their friends "how do I get through this long empty patch from 50-60?" and be told to get HW so they can have a full expansion worth of fresh new content while they do it. If they take that advice, then nice for SE, they get another $10 or $20 bucks out of it that way. But if the player doesn't take the advice and keeps just ARR and 4.0, then they have to level from 50-60 on just the level 1-50 content. Quite a slog, but there is a lot of level 50 content, so it's certainly doable.

[SDaemon]

It's just that the next expansion will have its own separate story requirements that won't include the Ishgard part. (But of course, the next story also won't require unlocking Dark Knight or whichever you're interested in. You'll be able to skip the 2.x patch quests only if you're willing to forego everything that's gated behind them, which is basically all of HW except for the Au Ra race.)

I still see them having to "progress" in the 3.0 story to go into the 4.0 story. Its just you view a recap cinematic rather than play through the quests/content. Its the only way to make things logically flow from 2.0 to 3.0 to 4.0. Because if the story went from 2.0 to 3.0 OR 2.0 to 4.0 it wouldn't work. The ending plot of 2.0 doesn't leave any room except for 3.0 to occur.

You contradicted yourself there. If (as I agree is most likely) the next expansion raises the level cap again and goes from 60 onward, then it too would give you a level cap raise, and HW will no longer be the only way to get one. ARR goes from 1-50, HW goes from 50-60, lets assume 4.0 goes from 60-70. That would mean someone with just ARR and 4.0 (but not HW) would have a level cap of 70 (which 4.0 gave them), but their content would go from 1-50, then have a gap before it picks up again from 60-70.

That wouldn't be the ideal way to play. Generally, they'd ask "how do I get through this long empty patch from 50-60?" and be told to get HW so they can have a full expansion worth of fresh new content while they do it. If they take that advice, then nice for SE, they get another $10 or $20 bucks out of it that way. But if the player doesn't take the advice and keep just ARR and 4.0, then they have to level from 50-60 on just the level 1-50 content. Quite a slog, but there is a lot of level 50 content, so it's certainly doable.

That isn't a contradiction. That is a flow. HW raises the cap from 50 to 60. 4.0 would raise the cap from 60 to XX. One precedes the other as a prerequisite. You are assuming just by buying 4.0 that you could level from 1 to 70. Using your idea they would have to design content in the 4.0 expansion specifically to level from 50 to 60 to accommodation a larger level gap rather than utilize the content they have already developed for that purpose.

[Niwashi]

the RMT bot armies are stuck/trapped in ARR content because they cannot clear all the story

It's not the story gating that's keeping bots out of Ishgard. It's the fact that they'd have to make another purchase. Bot-scripting quests is easy, and it's clearly already being done or the bots wouldn't be in level 50 content either (which already takes a much longer series of quests). But they're trying to make money and aren't going to spend any more than they have to to do so. So long as their bots can make enough gil to sell while in ARR regions, they're not going to buy an expansion.

I agree with all your conclusions and with your secondary reasons, but this, which seems to be your primary reason, is bogus.

[Snugglebutt]

It's not the story gating that's keeping bots out of Ishgard. It's the fact that they'd have to make another purchase. Bot-scripting quests is easy, and it's clearly already being done or the bots wouldn't be in level 50 content either (which already takes a much longer series of quests). But they're trying to make money and aren't going to spend any more than they have to to do so. So long as their bots can make enough gil to sell while in ARR regions, they're not going to buy an expansion.

I agree with all your conclusions and with your secondary reasons, but this, which seems to be your primary reason, is bogus.

It is not specifically that they have to click through some dialogues of the quest, that is not what I was referring to but it is the fact those quests involve tricky/hard level 50 dungeons and trials that are part of those quests which stops them from botting their armies en masse through into HW. I doubt RMT care much about the cost of HW expansion which is very cheap already, even cheaper when bought in large quantities that reduces the overall cost via discounts for large orders and would allow them more ways to make gil, especially since most of the gathering materials and such from HW zones remaining far more valuable still due to no incursion/saturation by RMT bot armies into those zones currently. RMT bot armies still suck dry the ARR market value for most bottable materials but the HW materials remain fairly untouched by them thanks to the gating.

[Nici]

Lol...i think were pretty much derailing this topic train a bit hahahaha, but its nice having different types of discussions like this.

[Niwashi]

I still see them having to "progress" in the 3.0 story to go into the 4.0 story. Its just you view a recap cinematic rather than play through the quests/content.

Only so long as that "recap cinematic" doesn't spoil the story of everything that went on in Heavensward. Some people will still want to play HW later and not want it's story spoiled.

(Sure there might be some odd bits here and there if you go back and do the different stories out of order, just like there are already if you do class/job quests out of the order with where you are in the MSQ. But that doesn't spoil their stories.)

Because if the story went from 2.0 to 3.0 OR 2.0 to 4.0 it wouldn't work. The ending plot of 2.0 doesn't leave any room except for 3.0 to occur.

The ending plot of 2.55 doesn't leave any room except for 3.0 to occur. That's why it wouldn't make sense to require those patch quests before anything other than Heavensward (as story-wise they're essentially part of HW already). But the ending of 2.0 (after The Ultimate Weapon) is much more open ended and could lead into any of a multitude of following stories, so I think that makes a better branching off point.

Regardless of what else they do, 4.0 will certainly need some leadup storytelling to explain why we're moving on to whatever area and plot it involves. Those leadup quests (comparable to the way the later 2.x patches lead into HW) would form a prologue that's required before moving on into 4.0.

But the most logical place to do that would be to have the story (though conceptually following 3.0) only require the base 2.0 completion and then those leadup quests that serve as a prologue to the 4.0 story. Most players would play through everything in order, but going from the end of 2.0 into the prologue chapters leading towards 4.0 would also work.

ARR to HW to 4.0 should work. ARR to 4.0 should work. ARR to 4.0 to HW could have some out of order oddities, but shouldn't spoil any of their stories.

That isn't a contradiction. That is a flow. HW raises the cap from 50 to 60. 4.0 would raise the cap from 60 to XX. One precedes the other as a prerequisite. You are assuming just by buying 4.0 that you could level from 1 to 70. Using your idea they would have to design content in the 4.0 expansion specifically to level from 50 to 60 to accommodation a larger level gap rather than utilize the content they have already developed for that purpose.

No, they wouldn't need to design any new content for that range. As I said, without HW there would be (and should be if SE wants to get the extra revenue) a big gap in the content. That gap is what would continue to encourage players to buy HW even after it's no longer the latest expansion. The smooth way to play it, or the flow as you say, would be to buy both expansions and play them in order.

But there's a difference between talking about what's the best way to play through a game and talking about what's required to unlock the next piece of it. There's no reason for HW to be required. To be the best way to play, the smoothest, easiest, best flow, etc. yes, that it would be needed for. But what makes for a smooth flow and what's required by direct content gating are two different things.

[SDaemon]

Only so long as that "recap cinematic" doesn't spoil the story of everything that went on in Heavensward. Some people will still want to play HW later and not want it's story spoiled.

(Sure there might be some odd bits here and there if you go back and do the different stories out of order, just like there are already if you do class/job quests out of the order with where you are in the MSQ. But that doesn't spoil their stories.)

That would be the entire point of the cinematic, to bring the player up to speed on the 3.0 story, so of course it would spoil the story. That is why they are choosing to watch the cinematic instead of playing through 3.0. For those that don't want to watch the cinematic they would opt not to and proceed as we have into Ishgard. I think you are confusing this option with an opening cinematic like the one we have with Ishgard that spoils the ending of 2.55?


The ending plot of 2.55 doesn't leave any room except for 3.0 to occur. That's why it wouldn't make sense to require those patch quests before anything other than Heavensward. But the ending of 2.0 (after The Ultimate Weapon) is much more open ended and could lead into any of a multitude of following stories, so I think that makes a better branching off point.

Regardless of what else they do, 4.0 will certainly need some leadup storytelling to explain why we're moving on to whatever area and plot it involves. Those leadup quests (comparable to the way the later 2.x patches lead into HW) would form a prologue that's required before moving on into 4.0.

But the most logical place to do that would be to have the story (though conceptually following 3.0) only require the base 2.0 completion and then those leadup quests that serve as a prologue to the 4.0 story. Most players would play through everything in order, but going from the end of 2.0 into the prologue chapters leading towards 4.0 would also work.

ARR to HW to 4.0 should work. ARR to 4.0 should work. ARR to 4.0 to HW could have some out of order oddities, but shouldn't spoil any of their stories.

You are suggesting SE design and devise branching timelines to accommodate your desire to not have 4.0 tied to anything? They would have to completely void every bit of story and branch it elsewhere for no reason. They have a story that is still developing with the Garlean Empries and the Ascians that is further developed in 3.0. They are not likely going to discard that just to reset from 2.0 and build elsewhere. Because 2.0 ends off at a very different stage than 2.55 does or even what 3.0 will, with the world and characters being in very different places and circumstances.

No, they wouldn't need to design any new content for that range. As I said, without HW there would be (and should be if SE wants to get the extra revenue) a big gap in the content. That gap is what would continue to encourage players to buy HW even after it's no longer the latest expansion. The smooth way to play it, or the flow as you say, would be to buy both expansions and play them in order.

But there's a difference between talking about what's the best way to play through a game and talking about what's required to unlock the next piece of it. There's no reason for HW to be required. To be the best way to play, the smoothest, easiest, best flow, etc. yes, that it would be needed for. But what makes for a smooth flow and what's required by direct content gating are two different things.

You are suggesting SE leave the giant gap from 50-60 content there as if HW didn't exist to give incentive for people to buy HW? I honestly 100% do not see them doing this and instead it is far more likely they will just have HW on your account be required to play the 4.0 expansion. There is no reason for them to do otherwise and leave players in that kind of situation.

[TankHunter678]

Isn't there a natural branch point where you get the first bit of info on the missing scions from Tataru during HW that can be used? It's after Raubahn and the 2.55 subplot wraps up. The MSQ "Aetherial Trail".

At that point you could have a MSQ "second set" of information/rumors that lead you to Yda/Papalymo instead of Y'shtola/Thancred and gets you rolling in the 4.0 MSQ. With modified scenes as necessary. Which should not be that many scenes, provided the excuse for why Yda/Papalymo do not come join you in HW content is good. Which would probably be a Primal issue of some sort that needs to be monitored and Yda/Papalymo are already in position to do just that.