Haurchefant's Mother

[Airias]

1/2

Not sure how much choice women in Ishgard have regarding birth control, but I can't imagine they'd plan having a child with a man they can't marry because of his position. The NPC women in Ishgard give us a very medieval image of marriage, so having a child out of wedlock is probably a terrible sin.

Likely motives for a woman to bed Thordan could be a misplaced hunger for power, or being attracted by power, if he already was Archbishop or close to becoming it around the time. On the other hand, Thordan doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd be above rape or whoring and the lack of affection for his son gives us an indication that he wasn't in love with Aymeric's mother.

[LineageRazor]

On the other hand, Thordan doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd be above rape or whoring and the lack of affection for his son gives us an indication that he wasn't in love with Aymeric's mother.

Wow, the characterization of Thordan in this game didn't give me this impression at all. I believe that it was all but spelled out that the only reason a bastard like Aymeric was able to rise to the position he held was due to Thordan's influence. That hardly indicates a lack of affection! Additionally, Aymeric clearly believed that he might be able to sway Thordan from his path, which wouldn't make much sense if Thordan had been cold to him his entire life. And raping and whoring? Where does that even come from?

The impression I got from Thordan was that he was a man who inherited a very difficult problem (the war with the dragons, and the secret that Ishgard had started the conflict). While from the perspective of many he chose the wrong methods for addressing that problem, it was clear to me that he believed he was doing what was best for Ishgard. Thordan desired power, it is true, but pretty much all the dialog we see indicates that he wants that power in order to secure Ishgard's future, rather than power solely for power's own sake.

From this, my impression of his relationship with his son was that he loved Aymeric, and probably his mother as well, but due to his position had to keep both at a distance, publicly. Very likely he had a warm relationship with them in private, which is why Aymeric was sure he could be turned from his ruinous path - and even though Aymeric was wrong, he was merely imprisoned for opposing him, rather than executed.

[Airias]

1/3

I believe that it was all but spelled out that the only reason a bastard like Aymeric was able to rise to the position he held was due to Thordan's influence.

Now that's interesting. Lucia said pretty clearly the rumors about Aymeric's ancestry made it harder for him because everyone assumed his career was only built on the influence from his father, indicating he didn't have the skills, and he still made it this far, having to prove himself more than others. His belief to be able to sway Thordan wasn't born out of a family bond, but because he thought he'd out the lie either way - Aymeric was ready to fight his father over this if he couldn't persuade him and actively used the blood bond as a reassurance. Lucia did not just expect the rumors were true, she bet his life on them, so Aymeric must've filled her in.

[Airias]

2/3

I've watched that scene where Aymeric leaves us at Fortemps Manor over and over again, wondering why he left without having rescue plans in place: Because he had. He knew how much backup he had and he was ready to push his own father off the throne for the sake of his reform plans. So much about family love.

Thordan desired power, it is true, but pretty much all the dialog we see indicates that he wants that power in order to secure Ishgard's future, rather than power solely for power's own sake.

If you think Thordan truly wanted what's best for Ishgard, you should listen to Alphinaud again: He reminded us of "[...]the importance of differentiating between words, deeds and beliefs. [...] judge your father's conviction to be no more than rank, self-serving delusion." (The Sins of Antiquity) -->

[Airias]

3/3

Thordan did not care how many innocent people died or lost their loved ones or their limbs in the war, he didn't even think of alternatives even though his own son had lots of ideas about that. Ideas Aymeric obviously was too afraid to share with his father until that day, since Thordan believed his son would come to share his views. But then, Thordan shared none of his own plans with the Lord Commander of the Temple Knights, who could have been of great help.

All of that indicates their relationship as father and son is relatively fresh and there is little trust between them, which doesn't come as a surprise since Thordan couldn't care less for other people and Aymeric has no problems sacrificing himself for them.

(Aaah this 1.000-character rule kills me, sorry for the formatting)

[Rosenoire]

The word that comes to my mind regarding Thordan is "entitled". He believed that he knew what was best for Ishgard and the rest of the world, and the opinions and feelings of others were simply irrelevent. He was right, and that was the end of the matter. I could see him assuming that a woman wanted him because why wouldn't she? But mostly, I feel like Thordan evaluates people by whether they're useful to him. Aymeric as Commander of the Temple Knights was potentially useful--until he proved that he wasn't by not getting with the program. If Thordan had any kind of relationship with his son, he'd have known that his rationalization wasn't going to sway Aymeric.

I definitely got the sense that Aymeric's rise was in spite of his parentage rather than because of it; the rumors and scandal would have made his life very difficult as an unacknowledged bastard. And his relationship in private couldn't have been that warm--he didn't just have him imprisoned; his instructions to "question him thoroughly" and the way Aymeric was limping and holding his arm strongly suggest that the Heavens' Ward tortured him on Thordan's command. Not going to win any Father of the Era awards.

[Atoli]

I could see him assuming that a woman wanted him because why wouldn't she?

On the whole "Thordan forcing himself on some woman" theory:
This might sound weird but...Aymeric is one of the most popular male characters in FFXIV. And while a lot of that can be attributed to his interesting role and galant behaviour, let's be honest and say that his good looks also play a huge role in that ^^°
He must have gotten them from SOMEWHERE..and Thordan wasn't always this old dried-up man with a long white beard. If he was attractive and powerful (because before becoming pope, he must already have held a fair amount of power within the clergy), there is no reason all the women wouldn't fall for him.
I mean, how old is Aymeric anyway? He looks like he's in his 30s. So Thordan was what, 30-40 when he fathered Aymeric? I don't find it hart to believe he fancied some woman back then for a while. Or at least just wanted to get rid of some...natural urges

30 years is a long time. He probably wasn't as composed and focused as we know him to be now.