Patch 3.3 (Trailer) Discussion (2.x - 3.2 Spoilers)

[Balphagor_]

Ok so there is one small detail that I have seen... well noone mention yet.

Wel see a EstinienXNidhogg fusion form during the trailer attacking with a massive AOE, while yes this looks very cool it brings up many interesting questions and valid points.

The most noticable example I can think of, this is not the first time this has happened to (most of) us.
Think back to The Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 9 and Nael Deus Darnus. A human given dragonic form and powers by his "God".

While the situation was very different, in many ways it was also very similar. A mortal man overcome by the will of a greater dragonic entity, given great powers and forced to fight us.
It does differ in that in the case of Estinien it is the will of the other creature "replacing" his own, but even so the similarities are there.

The important factor is that after the battle with Nael Deus Darnus he was freed, which in primal terms is almost unheard of.

I dont know what this means for the fate of Esitinien, but after out battle with Nael he was completely freed from the dragons control, and besides what happened after 100% healthy and back in his right mind.

Thought this should be brought up so people could perhaps help me expand on the theory/analysis.

[Cilia]

I should probably clarify that I didn't literally mean we rip out Nidhogg. Just that the Echo allows us to go into the soul of Estinien and act as a catalyst.

...

Also I'm curious on how our our strengthened blessing of light effects things...

If it's possible to save Estinien, that's the only solution I can think of that's viable. It's not entirely unprecedented (Cid's goggles), but still extremely theoretical.

On a more dour note, we should prepare ourselves for if it really isn't possible to save him at all. In that case, while heavy-hearted, I will not regret or hold back, because it's an act of mercy. (It has nothing to do with "manly resolve," Waffles!)

I'm not going to worry about the "strengthened" blessing until it's brought up. Thus far it seems to be of the same caliber as before; we've just become stronger through our trials without it. Lahabrea did note that we'd become "powerful enough to deny [them their] power" after we best the Ascian Prime, suggesting it may be strong and have some kind of reality reinforcement effect, but who knows.

Ok so there is one small detail that I have seen... well noone mention yet.

Wel see a EstinienXNidhogg fusion form during the trailer attacking with a massive AOE, while yes this looks very cool it brings up many interesting questions and valid points.

The most noticable example I can think of, this is not the first time this has happened to (most of) us.
Think back to The Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 9 and Nael Deus Darnus. A human given dragonic form and powers by his "God".

It was brought up from the beginning...

... but to recap, nobody's sure if what worked then and there will work soon and here. "Bahamut" and Nidhogg are two vastly different beasts, as is their method of dominating their servants / vessels.

I don't think anyone's said it yet, but I just wanted to say I'm amazed and glad they went with Dragonsong for the final battle against Nidhogg instead of a more generic action-y theme. The melancholy tone of the song fits well no matter the outcome.

Also just wanted to take a few seconds to thank the devs for everything they do. It's not often a game's story holds my rapt attention, much less an MMO.

EDIT
That doesn't look like just an AoE, that looks like Estinien-Nidhogg's new super. And for the record I'm not sure if it's awesome or terrifying.

[Vayanne]

While I do want us to save Estie, I am more concerned about these two: https://youtu.be/2RMaN8U3ots?t=65
Hopefully neither of them will get too pureed by that tower to deprive us of her strong/his gorgeous presence.

[Theodric]

Personally I'm hoping that the theme used at the beginning of the trailer is Nidhogg's main theme during the fight against him. I think it fits rather well given that he is a hybrid of two beings completely consumed by vengeance.

[Lunaxia]

While I do want us to save Estie, I am more concerned about these two: https://youtu.be/2RMaN8U3ots?t=65
Hopefully neither of them will get too pureed by that tower to deprive us of her strong/his gorgeous presence.

I wonder if that part has been edited, because it's an odd thing to do. Jumping in front of someone in that situation wouldn't achieve much, you'd just both become jelly.

[Pomelo]

My wager is that we'll use the Echo to go into Estinien-Nidhogg's soul and convince Estinien to let go of his hatred and lust for revenge. Doing so should theoretically break Nidhogg's hold on him, given the wyrm now self-identifies as vengeance incarnate (and he's almost literally correct). Many believe the Echo can be used to brute force Nidhogg out, but I'm not sure of that yet... besides which, we haven't been seen doing anything with the Echo but unwillingly rooting around in peoples' memories. It'd be a big leap to go from unconscious, unwitting memory theater to ripping out entire psyches.

Didn't Laha and his girlfriend combine together using the Echo? I suppose we could use it ...to uncombine individuals.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Didn't Laha and his girlfriend combine together using the Echo? I suppose we could use it ...to uncombine individuals.

Except we're made fun of for having the echo and not knowing how to use it (other than some outside help anyway)

[Alberel]

Given the similarities between Nael Deus Darnus and Estinihogg's apparent new form I'm wondering if we might get some new information on what Nidhogg's resurrected form actually is. I've been noticing for a while now that Nidhogg is essentially a primal in every way that matters. His new body seems to be made of aether, he's taken Estinien as a tempered host. The only difference being that he appears to draw aether from the eyes (due to them apparently being a nigh limitless source of aether) instead of the environment.

My guess for the finale though is that we'll shatter the eyes somehow and release Estinien and Lahabrea at the same time.

I wonder if Midgardsormr will make an appearance though. Killing one of his children (again) would surely be worthy of comment from him...

[Fenral]

On a more dour note, we should prepare ourselves for if it really isn't possible to save him at all. In that case, while heavy-hearted, I will not regret or hold back, because it's an act of mercy. (It has nothing to do with "manly resolve," Waffles!)

It has everything to with resolve. You can't save someone if you expect you may have to kill them. That tiny bit of doubt allows despair to take root and grow until you decide it "must be done," whether or not that's truly the case. ("Manly resolve" was only meant as a jab at the Japanese script, where comparable phrases get thrown around right left and center, especially in Ishgard. I imagine Alphinaud is sick of it by now. I know I am.)

Ironically enough it was Hydaelyn Herself who gave us another way in the fight with Lahabrea-Thancred, and told us to stop listening to the cackling madman telling us there was no other way. Still betting on her being the "save everyone" goddess, she just needs to get her crap together. And fix her damn internet.

[Nalien]

I wonder if Midgardsormr will make an appearance though. Killing one of his children (again) would surely be worthy of comment from him...

I don't recall him particularly caring when we killed Nidhogg the first time... Perhaps he knew Nidhogg would be back though, in which case... I really hate Midgardsormr...

I'm wondering about the actual chain of events at this point...

We start with Estinien on the bridge.
Then we have Nidhogg flying up doing his best Ifrit cosplay.
Then something happens in the sky...
Later it seems like the fight starts against Nidhogg.
Finally we get Estinien Deus Nidhogg...

So, what's that actual order there? I can perhaps see Nidfrit being a phase change to Estinien Deus Nidhogg, but I can also see that being his final defeat... I'm guessing we just wear him down though, we fight Nidhogg until he is overpowered, he flies up and turns into Estinien Deus Nidhogg, we beat him, then Estinien stands there giving the opening lines from the trailer ready for Alphinaud to run in and save him with the power of hugs... That sky really does strike me as too ominous to be a phase shift though...