The cast time on Stoneskin II

[Ozek]

The single defining factor in this conversation is that Stoneskin 2 can not be cast in combat. Therefore, there is absolutely zero reason for it to have a cast time of 5 seconds.

[Destous]

snip

All I'm asking for is a justification for a long cast time on a skill that can't be used in battle. The point of cast times and MP costs is to balance a skill while in combat. They are 2 factors to consider before using a skill as a player judges the opportunity cost before making a decision. None of this exists for SSII. The end result is a waste of player time. This feeling of having their time wasted is so prevalent that it's become commonplace to burn swiftcast to avoid 5s of cast time for no other reason than to not waste 5s waiting on the cast time. I'm baffled that you fail to understand this.

[Rawrz]

I demand a QoL fix for SCH. Adlos should 100% crit while outside of combat. Its a very long process trying to get an optimal shield and the MP cost can be taxing even outside of combat if it takes long enough.

*This is a troll. I don't really care if WHM gets Stoneskin II buffed. Its just a DPS slow down as its tradeoff*

[Rongway]

The point of cast times and MP costs is to balance a skill while in combat.

Or between combats.

As it stands, if someone should happen to want to cast Stoneskin II between trash pulls, it must be swiftcast on the run. Whether or not this is a "good" or "effective" use of anything is irrelevant. Modifying Stoneskin II to have a native instant cast would have the effect of removing the choice between using Swiftcast to reapply Stoneskin II on the run or saving Swiftcast for, say, a Holy, which effectively and unintentionally increases the value of Holy.

[technole]

I demand a QoL fix for SCH. Adlos should 100% crit while outside of combat. Its a very long process trying to get an optimal shield and the MP cost can be taxing even outside of combat if it takes long enough.

*This is a troll. I don't really care if WHM gets Stoneskin II buffed. Its just a DPS slow down as its tradeoff*

Oh and Scholar summons should be instacast, it's the same speed as Stoneskin II so if that gets buffed better even the playing field! Help us Scholars not "waste" a swift!


Meanwhile those of us playing AST in the main healer seat in raids sit quietly. Those Stoneskin 1s each wipe. Don't take your WHM QoL for granted!

[ArikDimas]

Oh and Scholar summons should be instacast, it's the same speed as Stoneskin II so if that gets buffed better even the playing field! Help us Scholars not "waste" a swift!

If scholars can get instant out of combat summons, can summoners get it as well? And can machinists quick reload give 5 ammo instead of 1 outside of combat?

[JackFross]

While I'm not usually a fan of "Slippery Slope" arguments, it can absolutely be applied to this situation in the way the above posters have been stating. There's all sorts of things that players would want from their skills out of combat in order to hasten things along. I have yet to see any WHM or SCH or SMN in any sort of non-trash content burn Swiftcast on Stoneskin II or Summon - both of which always seem to be done and ready long before the pull happens... Both of which need to be re-applied applied after a wipe...

The bottom line is that removing SSII's cast time removes the choice of being normal and just casting it because the pull isn't gonna happen for another 15-20s anyway and otherwise you're just standing around versus burning one of your most useful cooldowns on a skill you could have just hardcast instead with no negative side-effects.

It's silly.

I regularly heal Expert Roulette with my Scholar. I have never ONCE cast a pre-boss Succor on the party. I don't even have Stoneskin on my bar. I throw Adlo on the tank and turn Cleric on. Every boss. My Scholar is i213 with a Gordian Codex. The fact that you're complaining about being unable to use a pointless skill before every boss in a dungeon because of the cast time is the same thing as:

A Summoner or Scholar whining about Summon/Summon II/Summon III cast time.
A Monk whining about how long it takes them to build up 5 stacks of Chakra or how hard it is to maintain Greased Lightning in a dungeon.
A Ninja whining about how long it takes to recast Huton before each boss.
A Machinist whining about not being able to do a 5 ammo opener on every boss in a dungeon.
A Bard whining about having to cast Foe Requiem before each pull in a dungeon with a caster present.
An Astrologian whining about having to cast Stoneskin on every party member before each boss in a dungeon.
A Scholar whining about the tank not pulling until there's 5s left on their Crit Adlo. (THIS IS THE WORST THO)
A Warrior whining about being unable to do their full 1-minute Infuriate opener on every dungeon boss.
A Dark Knight whining about DPS who beg them to not use Plunge to pull for one reason or another.


Why are these all the same thing?
Because every single thing I listed there is optional, especially for a Dungeon run where DPS checks are less than negligible and upkeep is near impossible. Everyone has to deal with shit that's both optional in any situation where it's an issue as well as time consuming to the tune of "why is this a thing I have to deal with?" - WHM isn't special, so why should it get special treatment?

[Destous]

snip

Yes, but how many of those skills you mentioned are inherently locked out of being cast during combat?

If this could be cast in combat, it would make sense to have a cast time. All these "lolsofunny" posts about adlo crits or summoning pets hold no relevance to the discussion. SSII can't be cast in combat. There's no room for abuse. It just has an annoyingly long cast time that could easily be shorter, if not instant.

[Normalizer]

There's no room for abuse.

This post points out perfectly where it makes the difference:

Or between combats.

As it stands, if someone should happen to want to cast Stoneskin II between trash pulls, it must be swiftcast on the run. Whether or not this is a "good" or "effective" use of anything is irrelevant. Modifying Stoneskin II to have a native instant cast would have the effect of removing the choice between using Swiftcast to reapply Stoneskin II on the run or saving Swiftcast for, say, a Holy, which effectively and unintentionally increases the value of Holy.

Another example would be A6 when you running from robot to robot, not all the tank will wait for SS, let alone SS2. You gotta choose to burn swiftcast or just SS the tank, or just no SS at all.

Also all those skills you said are not lockout in combat, SS is not either. SS2 is just equal 4x or 8x SS. You can cast 4x or 8x SS during combat can you not?

[Werhusky]

Yes, but how many of those skills you mentioned are inherently locked out of being cast during combat?

If this could be cast in combat, it would make sense to have a cast time. All these "lolsofunny" posts about adlo crits or summoning pets hold no relevance to the discussion. SSII can't be cast in combat. There's no room for abuse. It just has an annoyingly long cast time that could easily be shorter, if not instant.

If Stoneskin 2 would be castable in combat noone would even try to get an AST mainhealer (best example A6S between the bosses...it would be too OP). It is a balance thing isn't it? As SCH or AST you have 8 seperate casts I don't get why they even gave WHM this advantage... or they couldve made it for all classes the moment Granite Skin was removed -.-