Suggestion for Novice Network system - Too many whining sprouts

[randysquirrel]

The "whining sprouts" are still vastly out-numbered by the amount of mentors foisting their unsolicited "advice" (that is often wrong anyway) on anyone and everyone

[Reinha]

Again, no, they can't reply using *tells*. Try something other than a tell.

Oh, but wait, you don't want to use something other than tells, because then you can't use your magic "/search all sprouts" button and then mass blind invite all the sprouts that aren't in your immediate vicinity, right?

To which I say, good. You shouldn't be doing that in the first place.

Your idea has been tried and it failed, considering the fact that before this patch the channel had about 20-30 sprouts on a good day. You know why? Because max level players don't tend to spend their play time roaming low level areas. A help channel without people to receive the help is useless.

[Pells]

Well, there is an EXP bonus applied if there's a sprout and the mentor in the same party if they're below level 20... that's a bit of a minor thing, but it IS a benefit.

So get their mentor friend to power level them to 20? It'd take all of twenty minutes, if even that. Especially with a not-so-minor xp boost. 20% is huge for a combat xp boost. You only get 3% from food. 20% from the invite-a-friend thing (up to level 25). 20% from the mog hat (up to level 10). 50% from rested xp. And this is combat xp only--none of these bonuses apply to quest or dungeon xp, so mass killing mobs is the best use of them.

If they don't have a mentor friend, why wouldn't they join the network unless they simply don't care about the xp bonus. At which point why keep the sprout?
And after level 20? What benefit is there?
Why wear a "I'm new, please help" sign when you don't want help?

[LineageRazor]

Honestly, with all this debate about the pros and cons about blind invites to the Novice Network, wouldn't it make more sense for SE to insert a low-level Quest that spells out what the Novice Network is all about, and offers a nice "Would you like to join the Novice Network? YES/NO" dialog box?

Perhaps SE was concerned that this would open the door to allow bots and RMT to flood the Novice Network... But, honestly, they don't seem to be having a lot of trouble getting in as it is...

Perhaps as an alternative, rather than that Dialog box actually placing them in the network, selecting "YES" will enable the "Invite to Novice Network" menu option. If they select "NO", that option will not be in the list. In that way, Mentors always know that the person they invite is actually interested in joining - because if they weren't interested, they wouldn't be able to invite them in the first place.

[Knahli]

There's another barrier trial accounts can't invite people to party, they can only be invited.

I use these macros instead https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_game/d2x5798 briefly explaining what is the network and letting them know how to disable it or leave it if they do not wish to participate.

Well that's unfortunate then ; I suppose the only other way is to invite them to your own party and indicate that they should accept if they wish to join the NN(or don't but simply have a question or two anyways). Granted, that's not ideal either for either party in this case, but at least it feels less imposing. I know it may sound silly to some, but it's apparent that more than a handful of people feel uncomfortable with just being pulled into a big linkshell all of a sudden.

As for the person mentioning macro tells, I see where you are coming from but if they are new players then they might be a lot more willing to read whatever comes flying their way ^^

Honestly, with all this debate about the pros and cons about blind invites to the Novice Network, wouldn't it make more sense for SE to insert a low-level Quest that spells out what the Novice Network is all about, and offers a nice "Would you like to join the Novice Network? YES/NO" dialog box?

Perhaps SE was concerned that this would open the door to allow bots and RMT to flood the Novice Network... But, honestly, they don't seem to be having a lot of trouble getting in as it is...

Perhaps as an alternative, rather than that Dialog box actually placing them in the network, selecting "YES" will enable the "Invite to Novice Network" menu option. If they select "NO", that option will not be in the list. In that way, Mentors always know that the person they invite is actually interested in joining - because if they weren't interested, they wouldn't be able to invite them in the first place.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the benefits of such a thing, but rather suggesting ways that you can make do without it in the meantime in order to both sound as inviting as possible, but while also not forcing the idea on new players who still might be a little disorientated in their new game.


On another note, if someone invites a player to the NN and they leave soon after, is there anything stopping another mentor from obliviously re-inviting them?

[Meirii]

The point of being a mentor is to talk to sprouts.... address the issue, end the issue, done and done!

[birdy_reene]

Maybe ppl find this to hard to do, why not ask a sprout if they would like to join it, before inviting them to a system that forces them in? Its kinda like those rude FC invites where no one talks to you first but keeps inviting you. Whats so hard about communicating with someone before you invite them?

[LineageRazor]

Whats so hard about communicating with someone before you invite them?

Actually, SE has restrictions in place that DOES add quite a bit of difficulty in communicating with someone before you invite them. Trial accounts are very limited in the kinds of communication they can participate in - essentially, they're limited to using /say to communicate. So, let's say that you're a Mentor, and you've come across a Sprout. You check, and they haven't been invited to NN yet, and you don't want to be a pain and invite someone who doesn't want in. So, you communicate! How does that go?

Mentor: /s Hey, there! I see that you're not in the Novus Network, a place where veteran players chat with new players to help them learn to play the game! Would you like to join?
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Ah, perhaps you don't know how to chat! You should be set to chat in /say by default, but just in case you're not, type /say followed by what you want to say!
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Perhaps you don't have a keyboard? If you click on your chat window, you can bring up an in-game keyboard you can type on...
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Maybe you don't speak English? (Can you understand English?) Wait, that doesn't translate to Spanish... I don't know any Spanish...
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s I dunno, jump up and down if you want to join?
(Sprout doesn't jump)
Mentor: /s Well, I tried, I guess...

Obviously, this is a worst-case scenario, with an absurdly patient and persistent Mentor, but there can be many reasons why a sprout does not respond. It also can't be argued that a player who can't type or understand English wouldn't be interested in joining; Novice Network DOES have multiple language representation (even if, on my server at least, it's primarily English), and players who can't type can still learn much by listening to the chat. For a Mentor that is honestly concerned about getting newbies in, "Just talk to them" isn't that simple.

It's not a surprise, then, that a lot of mentors simply choose to invite, leaving the sprout to decide whether they want to stay or not (and, thankfully, sprouts now have that choice). Or, alternatively, Mentors who don't want to be disrespectful but also don't want to invest in a potential wasted conversation (and remember, both the Mentor and Sprout have to stay in the same place, since /say might be the only possible form of conversation) wind up simply inviting a whole lot less sprouts.

Again, though, folks aren't wrong in saying unsolicited NN invites are like blind-inviting someone to a FC. The system SHOULD be changed, and hopefully will. In the meantime, both viewpoints have their plusses and minuses.

[MomomiMomi]

I'm not going to have anything to do with your "challenge" because like I said, being a mentor does not mean having to meet some quota system where you have to make sure you tag everyone online at any given time. If you think that's what it's all about, you are misunderstanding the purpose of the mentor system in the first place.

So you're okay with 80% of the novices not receiving any help? I will repeat what others have said with the hopes that maybe it will get through this time: If they aren't getting invited to the NN, the NN isn't serving its purpose. What you're suggesting is to drastically decrease the amount of people you can reach.

[Fynlar]

Your idea has been tried and it failed, considering the fact that before this patch the channel had about 20-30 sprouts on a good day. You know why? Because max level players don't tend to spend their play time roaming low level areas. A help channel without people to receive the help is useless.

I've been at max for a while and I still regularly have to go back to "old" areas for GC turn ins, hunts, FATE grinding beast tribe dailies, etc.

If you aren't running into sprouts, you simply aren't trying.

Perhaps SE was concerned that this would open the door to allow bots and RMT to flood the Novice Network... But, honestly, they don't seem to be having a lot of trouble getting in as it is...

Gee, you think maybe that's because of the people who throw out invites willy-nilly without looking at who they're inviting or without even asking? Nah, that's probably just coincidence

Mentor: /s Hey, there! I see that you're not in the Novus Network, a place where veteran players chat with new players to help them learn to play the game! Would you like to join?
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Ah, perhaps you don't know how to chat! You should be set to chat in /say by default, but just in case you're not, type /say followed by what you want to say!
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Perhaps you don't have a keyboard? If you click on your chat window, you can bring up an in-game keyboard you can type on...
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s Maybe you don't speak English? (Can you understand English?) Wait, that doesn't translate to Spanish... I don't know any Spanish...
(Sprout is silent)
Mentor: /s I dunno, jump up and down if you want to join?
(Sprout doesn't jump)
Mentor: /s Well, I tried, I guess...

This is basically how most communication in the game goes, I've found.

This still does not mean, however, that people should just be blind inviting everyone instead. Absence of a no does not mean a yes.

Perhaps as an alternative, rather than that Dialog box actually placing them in the network, selecting "YES" will enable the "Invite to Novice Network" menu option. If they select "NO", that option will not be in the list. In that way, Mentors always know that the person they invite is actually interested in joining - because if they weren't interested, they wouldn't be able to invite them in the first place.

That's a decent idea. As it stands, I don't feel like the game really does a good enough job of informing new players that a Novice Network actually even exists as a whole separate chat channel, solely due to its invite-only system.