Why do people want Blue Mage in this game?

[Tanathya]

I just think she has absurdly high standards and mega rose tinted goggles, she's already complained about jobs being completely butchered so you aren't gonna hear anything different from her now :/

Which is not the case. If anything, maybe you just don't care what's thrown at you and will take it whatever the quality. In that case, I would worry about your standards and not anyone else's.

[NaesakiAshwell]

Which is not the case. If anything, maybe you just don't care what's thrown at you and will take it whatever the quality. In that case, I would worry about your standards and not anyone else's.

I care plenty and I'll admit Dark Knight isn't what I hoped it would be as I really would have liked the darkness mechanic to have played a hand in it but I really see no issue with Summoner as it is, with the pace of the game I would not have expected it to have been like past incarnations and I don't know why people assumed it would be, yeah its not super flashy but it doesn't need to be.

On the same token you seem to have low standards to the point of "I'll take what I am offered and never complain about it even if it was garbage".

And I'd appreciate it greatly if you both didn't make assumptions about what I care about, its easy enough to make assumptions about Magius based on her opinions throughout this entire thread and thats how she's come across to me.

As for the pet focus, I would like some more pet abilities in the future, since we've got a ton of player ability bloat at the moment and the pet bar could easily fit 2-3 more abilities without feeling over the top. I wouldn't mind seeing passives for summoner that enhance the pet some more, Like every time it crits it has a chance to refresh the cooldown on contagion for Garuda or the Radiant Shield for Ifrit.

Seriously the problems with you type of players is you complain and complain but you don't offer any proper ideas or feedback of how you think they should change the class so that it would appeal more to your tastes, all you do instead is bash and bash thinking thats going to provide the Dev team with anything significant, so kindly get off your damn high horse.

[MagiusNecros]

I care plenty and I'll admit Dark Knight isn't what I hoped it would be as I really would have liked the darkness mechanic to have played a hand in it but I really see no issue with Summoner as it is, with the pace of the game I would not have expected it to have been like past incarnations and I don't know why people assumed it would be, yeah its not super flashy but it doesn't need to be.

I am glad you enjoy your poor man's Necromancer. If you envisioned Summoner as a class that enfeebles it's enemies with debilitation's to do 60% of their damage(something a summoner never did ever), relegate their pet to 33% of their damage via auto's, only use each pet for shield or contagion and the occasional Enkindle and primarily rely on using all your base Arcanist skills for the bulk of your damage then by all means "Summoner" was quite the success I must say.

I'd talk about Dark Knight but me and Tanathya would be here for a week. TLDR Dark Knight is primarily a DRK in name only. It works as a Tank class but it could have been executed so much better.

Idea's and feedback have been given in the past to make classes better but is usually met with responses like "too hard", "it's fine as it is", "but I like it", "MMO balance issues", "yo standards are too high" , "but this is XIV".

And if you don't want people to make assumptions about yourself then perhaps you should take your own advice. I expressed my opinion, you cried about said opinion and I responded in tandem. Oh btw I'm a guy. I find all the male characters in this MMO goofy looking. Would play Au Ra but that run is a big no no.

I am very blunt and up front about my opinions and the fact they took away the core mechanic of what makes a Dark Knight is very disconcerting. Considering the FF series has been around since what the 90's? If you have taken offense to my mannerism and just don't know how to respond then you have my sincere apologies. I'm a nice guy but when it comes to the Blue Mage and Dark Knight I am very passionate about those.

[NaesakiAshwell]

I am glad you enjoy your poor man's Necromancer. If you envisioned Summoner as a class that enfeebles it's enemies with debilitation's to do 60% of their damage(something a summoner never did ever), relegate their pet to 33% of their damage via auto's, only use each pet for shield or contagion and the occasional Enkindle and primarily rely on using all your base Arcanist skills for the bulk of your damage then by all means "Summoner" was quite the success I must say.

I'd talk about Dark Knight but me and Tanathya would be here for a week. TLDR Dark Knight is primarily a DRK in name only. It works as a Tank class but it could have been executed so much better.

You act like a job can't ever be reinvented to suit the game and world its in, it fits in fine with the scope of the game. You are forgetting what Summoner builds off in the first place and I do hope in future expansions the new abilities Summoner get are more orientated towards the pet and honestly I am quite saddened at the fact we aren't getting new egi's any time soon with different abilities only glamours instead

Other than summoning Eidolons, Summoner didn't really have any other tricks up it sleeve. It either piggybacked off black mage or white mage, so they had to give it a kit in some form. I mean I would have liked it if they worked in tandom and all their spells reflected the egi that was summoned but it didn't and I doubt they'll ever rebuild the class from scratch, so yes I'm happy with what we've received because the heart of the class is still there.

Would I like SE to stick to tradition? yes, but at the same time I don't mind them pulling off a re-inventive spin.

However...as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is, the core theme is there and the storyline fits it to a tee but it just really felt like they had samurai all planned out and then threw out their excuse of "Oh we don't want to do another far east job so soon." and then put a flimsy Dark Knight shell over it.

[MagiusNecros]

However...as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is, the core theme is there and the storyline fits it to a tee but it just really felt like they had samurai all planned out and then threw out their excuse of "Oh we don't want to do another far east job so soon." and then put a flimsy Dark Knight shell over it.

Most of the mechanics geared toward SAM is honestly the reliance on Parry and Dark Dance being able to Dodge tank as well and Reprisal is more like a counter. It really does feel like a recycled Samurai concept. I do feel like the DADP + DADD is a total Samurai influenced thing. And plus it's conflicting with the DRK memo of get hit for more MP but you sacrifice your whole bar to not get hit essentially.

Moving on DRK wants to be the antimagic tank yet is missing a silence(hey flavor man), only has Dark Mind, is unable to parry magic attacks for extra magic mitigation to mirror PLD in the way it's shield adds extra physical mitigation to it's repertoire of defensive abilities.

The other 2 tanks are capable of boosting their self healing and their damage by a great margin in comparison to DRK who has a passive buff in Darkside and that's it, have ultimate defensive skills that aren't as taxing as Living Dead which just becomes a party drain to the point it requires either luck or precise coordination to be used well. Doesn't buff any stats in any way or give the DRK any Lifesteal just in case the healer got cooked not to mention if you have 22k they have to heal you for 22k to drop the WD status. The other tanks do not have this problem and their kit synergizes with themselves...whereas here the Dark's Kit in many cases is entirely up to RNG and your party but not yourself.

DRK can be an excellent main tank but in OT it offers little to no utility especially if you run a Monk with you. Really all you can offer is more DPS. Meanwhile a PLD has Clemency/Divine Veil and a WAR has Storm's Eye/Path. Which is really good for them.

With Dark Arts and Grit now I like the concept but Dark Arts only applies to 7 out of 22 skills. Of this stuff like Shadow Wall and 3 out of 5 HW acquired skills don't use DA at all. And Grit has one skill Souleater that has an established bonafide "grit effect". The only one mind you and it boggles my mind why there aren't more of these in general such as the defensive skills mimicking Vengeance from the WAR for a spike damage gimmick. It just seems the Grit Effect thing could have been taken so much better. And people complain about Blood Weapon being locked out of Grit and it wouldn't be as bad if Darkside didn't have a pedantic stipulation on no MP regen from outside sources to create an artificial MP management skill ceiling. Plus it makes support options of other classes gimped, yeah sure they can do something else but a little pick me up would always be appreciated. I mean a BLM has essentially infinite MP and not even they get that restriction. Like seriously?

I could write a wishlist of changes I'd love to see but it's more up to the devs to do that. So far it's lower TP costs and lower CD on DA. Baby steps but somewhere. I would love it if Blood Price was a 10 second recast that used 10% of your max HP to have you start regaining MP by things hitting you at least as a Grit effect. Since you know no Blood Weapon in Grit. And DRK would have a skill that sacrificed HP and I would be happy. BTW 10% of 22k is about 2.2k and guess how much DRK's are hitting for in Grit? Exactly. And if balance is a concern bump it to 20% sacrifice.

[ADVSS]

i love that theres at least one other person that sees drk flaws like i do, agree 100% as for blu getting implemented, im a purist at heart but a realist when it comes to making it party savvy, maybe the catch em all will work if they have no cross class skills and have 10 enemy skill slots, or maybe you just get the good skills at job quests, i could see either working out without busting the game too much honestly. but i know bad breath would have to do something like ninjas jugulate, can you imagine how broken it would be in the feast?

[Rawrz]

i love that theres at least one other person that sees drk flaws like i do, agree 100% as for blu getting implemented, im a purist at heart but a realist when it comes to making it party savvy, maybe the catch em all will work if they have no cross class skills and have 10 enemy skill slots, or maybe you just get the good skills at job quests, i could see either working out without busting the game too much honestly. but i know bad breath would have to do something like ninjas jugulate, can you imagine how broken it would be in the feast?

Have you not noticed, how when PVE skills are added, they get nerfed in PVP. SMN Dots would like to say hello and every stun that has a reduced duration.

[Yuni_Queen]

Most of the mechanics geared toward SAM is honestly the reliance on Parry and Dark Dance being able to Dodge tank as well and Reprisal is more like a counter. It really does feel like a recycled Samurai concept. I do feel like the DADP + DADD is a total Samurai influenced thing. And plus it's conflicting with the DRK memo of get hit for more MP but you sacrifice your whole bar to not get hit essentially.

DP feels like Samurai concept? In which youtube video, you decided to watch?
Who told you DA+DD is suppsoed to be used with BLood Price? Who told you it is not efficient? its 20% evasion rate, not 100%. On massive pulls, you will flow in mana regardless on 20% evasion or not. On small and single target you are not supposed to use this in the first place.

Moving on DRK wants to be the antimagic tank yet is missing a silence(hey flavor man), only has Dark Mind, is unable to parry magic attacks for extra magic mitigation to mirror PLD in the way it's shield adds extra physical mitigation to it's repertoire of defensive abilities.

Parry is FFXIV problem, not DRK's. Nobody said a word, that DRK is antimage concept. He has Dark Mind reducing magic dmg. And it was foolish community hype, that made an antimage out of DRK.

The other 2 tanks are capable of boosting their self healing and their damage by a great margin in comparison to DRK who has a passive buff in Darkside and that's it

DRK can use Convalescence too. DRK increases their dmg with constant buff 15% to dmg, and 10% to skill speed which is lowering recast times to 2.18 sec for me.
WAR has burst dmg, same goes to Paladin. DRK is sustained type of damage dealer, due to SAlted Earth and Scourge, which have sick huge potency themselves.

have ultimate defensive skills that aren't as taxing as Living Dead

LD is still better love story than holmgang. THere is no ultimate defense skills for current moment. There is Hallowed Ground, and Yoshi stated, that HG is a core ability for PLD. WAR core ability is Berzerk, DRK core ability is Dark Arts.

which just becomes a party drain to the point it requires either luck or precise coordination to be used well. Doesn't buff any stats in any way or give the DRK any Lifesteal just in case the healer got cooked not to mention if you have 22k they have to heal you for 22k to drop the WD status.

Noobs call it luck, others call it skill. Which part of DRK gameplay requires luck? triggering Reprisal? And what, Shield Swipe doesnt? "BUT omfg@320 Sheltron!!!111!!" but Dark Dance. 60 sec is jsut fine.
DRK has Lifesteal. Souleater. Usable in grit only, due to the fact, healing yourself with 400 potency attacks without 20% dmg penalty would make DRK at least invincible, due to greater mana income because of Blood Weapon.
10 sec is more than enough to use 3 Cure II and one cooldown. IF healer has no "oh-shit" button prepared, its fault of the healer, who didn't conserve his skills right. Pro-tip, you should use LD along with Convalesnce.

The other tanks do not have this problem and their kit synergizes with themselves...whereas here the Dark's Kit in many cases is entirely up to RNG and your party but not yourself.

Where the fuck is RNG here. For Reprisal? For Evasion during dark dance? Same goes to other tanks.

DRK can be an excellent main tank but in OT it offers little to no utility especially if you run a Monk with you.

DRK brings damage. DRK is tank, not dps to bring utility. What WAR brings to the party that is so magnificient? An axe and his deeps. Only those make you wet.
Good DRK is pumping dmg comparable to WAR with little margin of mistake to the bottom.

Really all you can offer is more DPS. Meanwhile a PLD has Clemency/Divine Veil and a WAR has Storm's Eye/Path. Which is really good for them.

And its useless if you have Ninja in party. Only paladin is real Ultility here.

With Dark Arts and Grit now I like the concept but Dark Arts only applies to 7 out of 22 skills.

Thnx god, there is no mana to buff each damn skill on the hotbar. And its better that way.

And people complain about Blood Weapon being locked out of Grit and it wouldn't be as bad if Darkside didn't have a pedantic stipulation on no MP regen from outside sources to create an artificial MP management skill ceiling.

If I could use outside sources for mp refresh, i would be doing same DMG as good DRG, outdoing every single WAR and greater part of all dps.
You are just extremely bad at MP management.

I could write a wishlist of changes I'd love to see but it's more up to the devs to do that. So far it's lower TP costs and lower CD on DA. Baby steps but somewhere. I would love it if Blood Price was a 10 second recast that used 10% of your max HP to have you start regaining MP by things hitting you at least as a Grit effect. Since you know no Blood Weapon in Grit. And DRK would have a skill that sacrificed HP and I would be happy. BTW 10% of 22k is about 2.2k and guess how much DRK's are hitting for in Grit? Exactly. And if balance is a concern bump it to 20% sacrifice.

What is this? A whining that a class is too hard? BP with 10 sec recast? Healing yourself in Grit for 2.2k three times in a row do the same trick as Clemency and unbuffed Equilibrum. DRK has self-healing over time, not burst 1200 potency.
Sacrificing HP when you clearly do not know how to play DRK? Please... Those like you are the reason tanks cannot have healer-pranking skills.

Nobody is forcing you to play the class. I am cool as it is, maybe because i can play it properly. Its so much funnier, when you know how it works.
You should try DRK out. DRK quest is in Pillars, a bit to the right of the Cathedral.
Then we can talk about DRK.

DRK looks, smells and has a moveset like a DRK.
Minor buffs or improvments are welcomed. Thats all.
[/TriggerEnd]

[MagiusNecros]

I completely missed the point

Name one FF game that isn't XIV where DRK relied on Parry to proc a counter attack to use a skill. You won't find any. The correlation between having blind effects for evasion and then having another for punishing you for using that is the issue. Your blind assumption that any decent DRK uses Blood Price during a DP + DD mass pull is ludicrous.

Regardless what you think because of Dark Mind and the mere fact DRK has access to INT down debuff, right now DRK is the antimagic Tank. It's a half assed one but it still has some qualities of one.

DRK cannot buff their own self healing. Convalescence boosts healing magic. DRK has no healing magic at all. So what were you even debating? Furthermore your decreased TP costs and Skill Speed are only available in Blood Weapon which in most cases if you are using Blood Weapon it's probably because you are OT or established enough enmity you can drop Grit if you trust your healer. There are some fights however where dropping Grit is a poor decision such as the last boss on the Vault.

LD is still a party drain, HG is EZ to use and Clemency can be used without an interrupt, and Holmgang can easily be used to survive a hit and heal over half of your HP with Berserked Equil, Second Wind, alongside Bloodbath. DRK however will barely make it to what 4-6k of self healing by themselves meaning they are entirely reliant on their healer. And you even admit if the healer screwed up it's essentially over for you. And by pairing LD with Convalescence you basically admit DRK can't sustain itself without outside help.

RNG is entirely dependent on Parry procs(refreshing low blow and damage mitigation are important) and then you have to take consideration when using skills such as Sole Survivor and Living Dead how your party will react especially in pug groups.

Warrior brings Storm's Eye. If it has a Ninja and if it is required it also has Storm's Path which reduces 10% damage from an enemy flat. To say it has no utility outside of DPS like DRK is baffling.

If you prefer DA to be used on less skills then that's fine but it really defeats the purpose of having the gimmick in the first place. And even with MP refresh you'd still do much less then a Dragoon. Stop fooling yourself.

And just to clarify while BLM is my main class I also have DRK at 60 and playing it as it is much like Warrior is rather simple. The only time I have a rough time is when a healer is incompetent. Like I've stated before DRK as a tank now is able to function but it could have been so much better. Definitely the funnest Tank so far to play even if it's a novelty class.

[Lemuria]

You act like a job can't ever be reinvented to suit the game and world its in, it fits in fine with the scope of the game, you are forgetting what Summoner builds off in the first place and I do hope in future expansions the new abilities Summoner get are more orientated towards the pet, and I am quite saddened at the fact we aren't getting new egi's anytime soon with different abilities only glamours instead

Holy comma splicing, Batman!

Look, it's really simple. As any little kid with a box of shapes and holes will tell you, anything will fit as long as you press it hard enough. In fact, you pretty much said it yourself when you used the word 'reinvented'. That, by definition, means taking something and altering it to suit your ideals rather than the original concept. For myself, and many others, hacking bits off a square to make it fit into a circle hole is just not the same.

I don't know many people who consider Summoner an actual 'Summoner'. You do less summoning in this game than ever, only ever keeping a single Egi out at any time with no real reason to swap between them. And Titan is useless. Period. You can still enjoy the job that was created in it's stead, but I consider it a Summoner in the same way I consider 1-ply as toilet paper. All the ingredients are there, but used in different amounts so they don't add up the same.

as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is

Dark Knight feels so far removed from its original concept that it feels like more like a Dark Paladin. Again, it works and plays just fine within FFXIV, but it's not one of those jobs you can consider close to the original concept, since at its heart, Dark Knight was always about using HP to deal more damage. Always. There isn't even a single HP based skill, unlike Paladin who gets Spirits Within. While we're on the topic, Bard doesn't fit its original concept either and neither does Scholar (the latter mostly because of it's branching with Summoner), with Bard being more DPS oriented than support, and not having very many songs for either of them.

The point is, whatever concept you have of a Red Mage, a Blue Mage, a Samurai or whatever, don't expect it to be the same as you remember it. I guarantee you it will change, likely beyond recognition, all to make that square peg fit into a round hole.