Xeno believes paladin should NEVER be main tank

[Gameplayzero]

Xeno's cool and he's got a lot of XIV knowledge, but you shouldn't take anyone's word as gospel. Form your own opinions, decide for yourself.

I think PLD having more raid-wide mitigation is a 10/10 idea, it's one I originally brought up long ago before 3.0 - I thought they'd make PLD more focused on it's utility, which they kinda did in DV... but then they just gave it 2 more combos... and Clemency... At least it got Sheltron I guess. Ah well, maybe things will be better in 4.0.

I just want to make it clear that I pulled Xeno into this not because I was like "omg he is the best warrior ever". I brought him into this because he is a well known tank but mostly because he said the subject of this debate lol. That's basically it.

issue I have with just giving paladin more "mitigation" basrd utility is that the meta is so focused on pushing to the limit that I think mitigation utility is a waste if fights are going to be like how they are now. And always assume im talking from a min/max standpoint. Yeah min/maxers will always play by the skin of their teeth, but over mitigation will just further the gap imo. If they tailor fights to compensate then that's just bad design and I hope they don't do that. Not that you mentioned that, but I'm just rambling and it has been said already.

[Reynhart]

I heard paladin was close or better in OT dps than warrior with slashing debuff for 2.0 content.

To be precise, in 2.x, the gap between PLD ShO vs PLD SwO was far greater than WAR Defiance vs WAR stanceless, so the overall best setup, DPS wise, was WAR MT/PLD OT.
PLD's "shitty damage" has always been ShO only, because SwO is actually a really huge damage boost. Considering the weapon delay, it's basically a +50 potency to all your GCD skills, with no enmity boost.

issue I have with just giving paladin more "mitigation" basrd utility is that the meta is so focused on pushing to the limit that I think mitigation utility is a waste if fights are going to be like how they are now.

That's why i think giving PLD the ability to use its mitigation on the main tank can be a good thing. If the PLD is OT, it doesn't need to be in ShO, so it can do good damage. And it could allow the MT so stay out of tank stance more, to also keep high damage. Or simply reduce the need for healing, allowing healers to DPS more.

[IskarJarak]

Rather then argue about this in the manner you guys are arguing in... why not just ask Xeno himself?

[Yuni_Queen]

I would rather hear opinion some pro no-lifes from Japan. I bet they have outdone us all twice when it comes to maximizing anything in this game.

Damn hikikomori'es....

[Iromi]

stuff..

I am not sure if this is a serious post or troll >.>

Just a few questions...or uh..thoughts..

[*]The best WAR in this game, though he does not admit.

I did not realize you knew every single WAR in the game personally? Or did we forget that not everyone makes videos of stuff they do in a video game lol.

Pretty much changed the tanking meta. I think Boc Choy was behind it too during BCoB but Xeno was watched a lot youtube / twitch (Tanks’s using STR gear)

Into what? My group never watches and videos or listens to anyone but ourselves..and we clear stuff just fine...and we've been together since FFXI days.

Very respected within the tanking community

I know tons of tanks and not one mentions this fellow...

Pretty entertaining player to watch on Twitch.

People still do/watch twitch? Furthermore...I am sorry but, I do love FFXIV...it is fun to play, but extremely boring to watch.

All other Youtube guides became irrelevant as Xenos where the best.

Again..people still do this? How bad is someone that they need to rely on a video? I mean...okay...I get that they give helpful hints and that is cool...but relying on it to this much? Uhm...well this explains a lot then.

Xeno started getting a bigger following during FCoB, slightly lesser known during SCoB era.

Again...I know a tooooon of people who play this game and again, never heard of this person. Just looks like your regular gamer who enjoys their hobby, which is cool. You are acting like this person cured cancer...very neckbeardy and cringe worthy post. Really, I had to cover my face reading that from embarrassment. Well...okay then.

I would rather hear opinion some pro no-lifes from Japan. I bet they have outdone us all twice when it comes to maximizing anything in this game.

Damn hikikomori'es....

Hahaha...yeah same. But I guess people tend to forget not everyone sits home all day and makes guides upon guides and plasters themselves on the internet. Most people just don't care lol.

[Jpec07]

why not just ask Xeno himself?

Because, while some may respect his prowess and knowledge of the game, we don't view the thoughts and opinions of one player any higher than any others'. We're not discussing what his opinion is so much as we're discussing the greater issues and ideas that informed that opinion, so that we can all form opinions of our own.

Into what? My group never watches and videos or listens to anyone but ourselves..and we clear stuff just fine...and we've been together since FFXI days.

There was a shift in the online discussion community around 2.2-2.3 wherein the attitude very quickly shifted toward tanks pushing out as much damage as they possibly could (it had to do with being able to customize the stats on the relic weapons, and people suddenly needed to figure out what was "best"). Before this, "turtle tanking" was the norm, but this shift focused on a more aggressive methodology, where the online community became very focused on DPS. In large part, this was due to how scripted the fights were, and due to the fact that gear offered (and still offers) very little in the way of contributing to mitigation. While I'd personally like to see a lot more randomization in damage income for tanks, it would be a bit of an upset.

People still do/watch twitch? Furthermore...I am sorry but, I do love FFXIV...it is fun to play, but extremely boring to watch.
[...]
Again..people still do this? How bad is someone that they need to rely on a video? I mean...okay...I get that they give helpful hints and that is cool...but relying on it to this much? Uhm...well this explains a lot then.

I usually have things like that on in the background while I'm derping in Diddlyshire. It's helpful because sometimes, someone will talk about something I might not have considered, or will help me see something from a different angle.

[Gameplayzero]

snip

so I'm confused. You actually question the use of vids? I mean for normal content yeah, but for raids? Especially when doing try outs or joining an already existing group? Not only that but studying different rotations and different methods to doing certain mechanics is no harm done. Watching vids doesn't make you a bad player IF that's what you are implying. You can completely ignore vids however if group is cool with that, but most won't.

and the forum has mentioned Xeno plenty of times. Not really a nobody just because you've never heard of him . Though my post is rather off topic.

Rather then argue about this in the manner you guys are arguing in... why not just ask Xeno himself?

basically what jpec said. Maybe a discussion as old as time, but I wanted to get opinions and hear everyone's thoughts on this. As well as have misinformed players like myself see the post as well. Learn more about the tanks.

[KrenianKandos]

While kudos to you and your group for going in blind or nearly blind, Iromi, please understand that a lot of the norm is still for people to go and review fights on Youtube or watch well known streamers beat the fight so they have an edge to actually beat the fights. As such, it's not really a wise idea to crack on the norm because you do it differently.

There is nothing wrong with watching someone who is rather knowledgeable about the tanking aspects of one class give his honest opinion. We all have opinions and part of being on a forum is to discuss things such as this topic and see what others think about the situation. Just because you haven't heard of the fella doesn't mean he doesn't have good ideas. While yes, I agree, everyone should just do their own thing and decide themselves what they like best, some of us like to have a community that allows us to maximize our potential in regards to tanking.

Just needed to voice that.

[Iromi]

so I'm confused. You actually question the use of vids? I mean for normal content yeah, but for raids? Especially when doing try outs or joining an already existing group? Not only that but studying different rotations and different methods to doing certain mechanics is no harm done. Watching vids doesn't make you a bad player IF that's what you are implying. You can completely ignore vids however if group is cool with that, but most won't.

and the forum has mentioned Xeno plenty of times. Not really a nobody just because you've never heard of him . Though my post is rather off topic.

Well, to be quite frank, compared to the number of people that play the game and the number of people who actually that do the content that he posts about he is a nobody...

People recognize me all the time saying "OMG UR DAT COSPLAY GURL FROM FFXIAH I KNEW U I NFFXI 1111!" in DF from cross servers..still, I am a nobody..lol. It is no big deal...

Yup..I do not prefer videos. Often times my group does things very, very different then others, my raid leader prefers us not to watch videos so we can think for ourselves and outside the box, it works . Oddly enough though I have played with some JP who do things like my group does. Not trying to dis people for watching videos, if they do that is more then fine, I understand why they do.

But yeah, what I was referring to is the way that person umm.... KuraiKiserogeru, was talking was like VIDEOS ARE GOD MADE BY THIS PERSON WHO IS MUH GOD BEST EVAAAAR...kinda weird.

My group and I just have no use for them. We did almost all of coil 1 completely different..to the point where when we went in the DF people were acting like we were idiots for not doing it how "the videos do", looking at videos for ideas or to better oneself is fine, but you have to understand where I am coming from. I agree wtih you 100%. Again, if others do..that is fine, I 100% respect them. My raid leader invents strategies and rotations and helps everyone in my group to learn...so no need for videos for us

And, Jpec07 that is cool, yeah stuff like that is fine..its just the way that one person was going on was really creepy towards this Xeno person lol.

[Gameplayzero]

snip

ah I get you. well honestly to the general player base the only people that are big are probably just mr.happy and misteq. That's about it imo.

and honestly blind runs can be far more fun and more rewarding. Just glad your group is having fun doing what they are doing. Raid groups are supposed to find best methods that work for them instead of just copying world first players. Looks like you guys are doing that just fine haha.