SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[EdwinLi]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Knight

youre literally describing this arent you?

i really feel like you want to see this, not a red mage

It would not be surprising if they combined Red Mage with Mystic Knight in FF14 version as they have done this with Warrior being combined with Berserker.

Probably something similar to this minus the flying...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0QgbqVu6Ec

[MagiusNecros]

It would not be surprising if they combined Red Mage with Mystic Knight in FF14 version as they have done this with Warrior being combined with Berserker.

Probably something similar to this minus the flying...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0QgbqVu6Ec

I can see that happening honestly.

[Shippuu]

Furthermore let's play with the idea that RDM could empower their weapons to deal unaspected magic damage and get benefit from Foe's. Imagine a tank being melee but inflicting primarily magic damage...buffing and debuffing ally and enemy with magic abilities or inflicting Magic Vulnerability up.

I've already broached the issues that come with a tank that deals strictly magic damage. How would the job handle things like the second boss of Void Ark? Where one target becomes immune to magic damage? If you queue in with 3 of said magical tank you've now made them useless against one boss they need to tank. Or how about Turn 4 of binding coil? Where enemies reflect magic damage, you now have a tank that deals no damage to these and instead takes extra damage from them. How do you balance a tank that gets such a strong boost from another job as well? Will it just be weaker than the other tanks without a Bard? Will it be stronger than the other tanks with a bard? If it inflict's magic vuln up than would it be too strong and discourage groups from having physical dps in their makeups? Trickier to balance in the long run.

Now in the grand scheme of things I'll ask the inverse of what you asked me. As a DPS or as a Tank what does Samurai hope to offer? Especially knowing that Physical Melee is probably going to be what it does and if Parry and Counters is a likely thing, DRK already has Parry covered. Slashing/Piercing/Blunt damage already exist and SAM will likely be Slashing just like NIN and all 3 Tanks. And if your answer is "whatever the devs throw at us" it doesn't offer an avenue for any interesting discussion. Generally it just degenerates into I prefer this job because reasons over yours because even more reasons.

How, pray tell, does DRK have parry "covered"? With it's measly single parry cooldown that isn't even as good as WAR's parry cooldown? Absolutely tired of hearing people say DRK is some kind of parry tank when it only has one crappy 30% parry increase when WARs sit there with a 100% parry increase cooldown. The logic of it as well, that's like saying they shouldn't have added DRK because it has cooldowns that flat reduce the incoming damage it takes.
Samurai has a wide breadth of abilities across the history of FF games, and can provide plenty of different things. The magical attacks you want Red Mage to have? Well Samurai have history with plenty of those, such as FF Tactic's Samurai which dealt all manner of magical attacks summoning spirits from their swords.

Or how about countering/parrying magical abilities? Such as Swordmasters from Bravely Default

Before Swine - Halve the damage you sustain if hit by a magic attack during the turn this ability is used and counterattack with three times the damage of a conventional attack. Does not apply to reflected magic damage.

Or some of SAM's skills from Final Fantasy Explorers

Sword Spirit - Draw out a katana's potential. Adds an ailment to your attacks unique to each weapon and ensures your next hit is a critical.
Curtain - Deliver a fierce slash that also creates a barrier capable of nullifying attacks.

Elemental abilities AND abilities that create barriers on themselves? Haven't people been asking for a tank that defends itself with barriers? I'll be...

And I get people are selfish. I mean it isn't like you have a vendetta to push for Samurai much like I want to push for Red Mage.

Except I keep my discussions in threads specifically discussing Samurai.

I would rather have a unique concept and playstyle over what fits the role in the trinity "easier".

That's on you for being unable to see unique concepts and playstyles while still fitting within the archetype established by this game's idea of tanks.

And the buckets of content of what I've seen amount to a mere 3/4 ounce cup of water with a failure that is Diadem, 2-4 dungeons with very little if any mechanics and raids that are either burn mobs/bosses or play jumprope scripted trial fights entirely reliant on positioning half the time. And hey I understand they are working with a budget and I believe a meager one at that but to call it "buckets" of content is a pretty bold claim.

That's entirely you're opinion then. Go to other MMO's that only update every 12-18 months then. SE is still reliably delivering content patches with more content then pretty much any other competitor is delivering, in a highly polished state no-less. Diadem was an example of them trying to introduce new content and it failed, a perfect example that even if they work hard to make something new it's not guaranteed to succeed. A fitting analogue to our discussion about taking a risk to try something new versus sticking to something more tried and true.

[ADVSS]

yeah they very well could...wait ramza was never a red mage....interesting, yeah they could combine the two berserker and warrior is kind of...meh. literally all of berserkers skill set was put into one single cooldown, cause thats... all they really did is autoattack, were talking about a list of skills that could be used. And maybe they will combine the two, sure they could. But it would be sad. I'd still play it though, I would just be disappointed

part of me hopes that the merging of those classes were to give warrior an identity, as in it was later translated over what "fighter" was in name, but was literally the same class. The one that turns into a Knight(as we know as paladin in our translated copy of this game) Again what you say is very possible indeed, I just personally wouldnt design it that way, which in all reality wont matter theyll design it how they want

[MagiusNecros]

In the event a boss became immune to magic damage you simply wouldn't enhance your weapon with magic. It really is that simple.

DRK has reprisal which like shield swipe is essentially a counter attack.

Before Swine if borrowed from is a magic counter and only would be seen in heavy magic damage raids. Kinda like how Dark Mind is mostly unused unless you know an attack is purely magical.

Sword spirit is debuff and ensures a crit(sounds a bit like a combo of SE/DE + Life Surge), Curtain would simply be an attack combined with a stoneskin/divine veil effect.

At least FF Explorers is true to form for all jobs. Dark Knight included.

[Khalithar]

How would the job handle things like the second boss of Void Ark? Or how about Turn 4 of binding coil? Where enemies reflect magic damage, you now have a tank that deals no damage to these and instead takes extra damage from them. How do you balance a tank that gets such a strong boost from another job as well? Will it just be weaker than the other tanks without a Bard?

I agree with just about all of your post, but I did just want to address these specific points. The reason being this: You know they can always go back and adjust the bosses right? There's no rule saying they can't. As for the brd, it depends on how much they get buffed by it. In a 4 man party if a Rdm tank with a brd does just as much damage as a pld or drk with a nin applying the slashing debuff, I don't really see the issue.

[EdwinLi]

yeah they very well could...wait ramza was never a red mage....interesting, yeah they could combine the two berserker and warrior is kind of...meh. literally all of berserkers skill set was put into one single cooldown, cause thats... all they really did is autoattack, were talking about a list of skills that could be used. And maybe they will combine the two, sure they could. But it would be sad. I'd still play it though, I would just be disappointed

It really depends if SE can give Mystic Knight and Red Mage separate weapons as FF14 does have a rule of THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE Job with this one weapon type since both are Magic Sword users.

Maybe something to fit into their arabian theme outfits Mystic Knight constantly get in the games since Red Mage already gets the Rapeir.

Maybe Scimitar?


If not and they're stuck with combining both Red Mage and Mystic Knight at least Red Mage Ff14 version may have more skill choices as one issue with Red Mage in FF14 will certainly be the choice of skills for the Job to use.

[ADVSS]

hat was another thought, because weapons do matter, obviously being a FF single player game, they could also imbue their magic to daggers and other certain weapons that allowed it(some didnt) I was thinking scimitars, and shamshirs as well, when i was wondering how they could do it(yes i know pld and gld use shamshirs on occaison, they also used to use daggers before ninja came along)

[EdwinLi]

hat was another thought, because weapons do matter, obviously being a FF single player game, they could also imbue their magic to daggers and other certain weapons that allowed it(some didnt) I was thinking scimitars, and shamshirs as well, when i was wondering how they could do it(yes i know pld and gld use shamshirs on occaison, they also used to use daggers before ninja came along)

Ya some weapons have been completely abandoned as this game moves on so maybe it is time for them to go to Jobs that will actually use them.

I wouldn't mind if they even give a New Job the Halberd that Dragoons no longer use. Ya we got a Naginata weapon for ilvl 170/180 but still not a Halberd and Halberds were made more for slashing rather than poking.

Of course people may considered it too Lu Bu for this game.


On another topic:
If you wonder about Ramza's skill set it mostly developed due to his other FF game appearance in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy and Pictlogica Final Fantasy where SE began developed his Job identity. Ramaza's skill set became more of a Red Mage over time along with his stats being all equal to be a Jack of all trades but Master of none. Ramza still kept some of his squire skills but SE mostly developed him into a Red Mage as he would gain more White and Black magic skills over his original Squire skills.

[ADVSS]

is that so? wow i mean i figured in original tactics you literally could create a redmage without really needing the job title, plus a little of blu from learning ultima while getting hit by it... Ramzas growing up I had no idea Thanks for sharing that tidbit!