30 Minute Lockout for Leaving Roulette's isn't Working as Intended.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

i like you, you are funny, but so are most elitists

Tbf, they aren't wrong either. While a good healer womt shave off more than maybe one minute off a run, healer DPS is disgustingly overpowered when it comes to AoE, due in large part the fact SE has no idea how to actually balance them with the rest of the jobs.

[Eidolon]

Tbf, they aren't wrong either. While a good healer womt shave off more than maybe one minute off a run, healer DPS is disgustingly overpowered when it comes to AoE, due in large part the fact SE has no idea how to actually balance them with the rest of the jobs.

*jawdrop*

Are you people for real with this? Does the concept of basic math completely go over your heads?


If a run is going for 30 minutes, it means there are some REALLY underperforming DPS. Which is the EXACT scenario that the person who was talking about this gave - a case where the DPS were performing at about 800-1,000 DPS (Which is pathetic AND underperforming, ESPECIALLY on AoE-bias pulls with those jobs they mentioned.)

If the healer is doing 0 DPS, and the run is taking 30 minutes because you have two DPS doing 800-1000 DPS. And you know what, if I'm bias and saying the tank is doing 800 DPS too? (crazy. I'm going to give you bias). Then that means that in 30 minutes, you did 2800 DPS.

2800 DPS = 168,000 Damage per minute. 30 mintues = 5,040,000 Damage needs to be done.

Ok. Let's add in our healer's DPS. Let's ay 1k, since that was the upper-level that healer gave.

1,000 + 1,000 + 1,000 + 800 = 3,800 DPS

5,040,000 Damage / 3,800 DPS = 1,326/60 = 22.10 minutes. Let's be fair and say "23 minutes."

Strange how it shows that it's "More than just a minute" even with numbers woefully bloated to favor against the arguement.

Sorry this just... gets under my skin. People underplay the Healer's DPS a lot. A great healer CAN really make a painfully slow 30 minute pull go into the catagory of 20-25 minute runs. And it makes MY life easier as a tank since my cooldowns rotate better when I'm not having to pop EVERY SINGLE ONE in a large pull that's taking too long to kill. @_@

You know what, I'm bored. I wanna take it a step further. I wanna say the DPS were performing average / above average. Let's say 1,500 DPS for the cumulative run (downtime obviously causes it to reduce) and the Healer is at 1000. But let's still say it's as 30 minute run, for whatever reason.

1,500 + 1,500 + 800 = 3800 DPS = 228,000 DPM * 30 = 6,840,000 damage done in 30 minutes.

1,500 + 1,500 + 800 + 1,000 = 4,800 DPS.
6,840,000/4,800 = 1,425 / 60 = 23.75. Still a reduction of 6 minutes.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

You just proved my point of healer DPS being ridiculously overpowered compared to the rest of the jobs though, making any contribution from the DPS/tanks meaningless.

[Cnidarian]

snip.

While I agree with you that a good healer can easily shave more than just a few minutes off a dungeon run. I have to point out a flaw in your math. Each dungeon has essentially a fixed amount of damage that can be dealt (some variation on this due to different boss mechanics which spawn adds). In you example, assuming you use the same dungeon as a reference point, you can't clear the dungeon in one instance with 5 million damage dealt and in the next run, clear the same dungeon while dishing out 6.8 million damage.

However, taking this into account you are still correct in how much time can be shaved, just your approach is off a little.

Say the healer in your second scenario did not dps at all, 1,500 + 1,500 + 800 = 3,800 group dps. This is the same math in your first example resulting in a run of 22.10 minutes (say 22 to be conservative for how much healer dps reduces dungeon time).

Now lets take 5,040,000 damage as a baseline for how much total damage can be dealt in a dungeon and assume the healer did 1000 dps along with the rest of the party performing as per your example. That yields 4,800 dps as you pointed out.

5,040,000 / 4800 = 1,050 / 60 = 17.5 minutes (assume 18). So 22 - 18 = 4 minutes saved by a healer doing "high" dps.

End result as others have mentioned is that a healer dpsing at a relatively high level will save more than just a minute or two.

[Eidolon]

You just proved my point of healer DPS being ridiculously overpowered compared to the rest of the jobs though, making any contribution from the DPS/tanks meaningless.

What? How do you even get that from those numbers? First of all, if you're comparing the two runs (In terms of the Damage Dealers themselves), the simple fact is that you shouldn't be. I wasn't comparing the difference of the Damage Dealers, I was comparing the difference of the healer. The fact that the max HP went up for the 30 minute example should show that (That's why there's the 1-2 minute discrepency in difference for the healer, they still speed it up by adding the damage, they just don't speed it up -as much-.)


If anything, the Damage Dealers have the greatest potential for impact because we have the highest upper-limit.

Heck, I'll take an AntiTower I just did on my DRG with an awesome AST and DRK it was an 18:22 run, combined.

Me: 1,501
BLM: 973
DRK: 537
AST: 524 (But they fed me cards so I love them forever ;-; you will be missed, sexiest of AST's <3)

Combined DPS: 3,535
18:22 run = x1,102 seconds.

total mob HP: 3,895,570 HP (18:22)

Now let's remove the healer.

3,895,570 / 3011 DPS = 1293.78/60 = 21 minutes

The healer sped the run up by at least 3 minutes. Know how else we could speed a run up by at least 3 minutes? If the Black Mage did high damage, if the tank did higher damage.

Stop trying to make this an "Us vs. them" for "Healer DPS is overpowered." Their DPS is part of the team.

Snippers

yea, I didn't cross those two examples. Moreso, it was to comparatively show that even with high DPS, a healer will still save time (Of more than 1-2 minutes), and I actually somewhat rectified this in the next one where I give a bit of anecdotal evidence (Personal experience isn't the best example of proof, but it'll serve it's purpose here.)

The only thing I could have changed was, as you showed, using the same baseline for HP, which is also something I had considered. But since my Expert started, I didn't have time to add it in. XD I appreciate you doing it for me.

[DeeColon]

You just proved my point of healer DPS being ridiculously overpowered compared to the rest of the jobs though, making any contribution from the DPS/tanks meaningless.

Healer dps isn't overpowered, a player who's good at this job can do good dps no matter what their job or role is, the simple fact is most DPS players are mediocre because it's perfectly okay for them to be or else somethingsomething cyberbullying. If a geared and skilled healer is doing close to or more than your DPS and it makes you uncomfortable, get better.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Which would only be true if I was actually competing against healers in AoE damage as a DPS. Instead, I'm sustaining 1,000 plus DPS as an extremely low geared WHM for an entire run, simply due to how OP healer damage is. There's hardly a reason to take a DPS as is.

[Eidolon]

Which would only be true if I was actually competing against healers in AoE damage as a DPS. Instead, I'm sustaining 1,000 plus DPS as an extremely low geared WHM for an entire run, simply due to how OP healer damage is. There's hardly a reason to take a DPS as is.

Go ahead and go do a 3-healer run, lemme know how much faster that goes for ya than doing 2 real damage dealers. I can garuntee, there isn't a single healer, AoE or ST, that can out do me as a DRG. But then again, I know my class well.

Your logic is about as flimsy as saying "Well 7 Paladins can do Sephirot EX, so I guess we don't need Damage Dealers!"

[MidnightTundra]

There's hardly a reason to take a DPS as is.

I can't even... What?

Do you only play with people who don't know how to do their jobs?

Healer DPS is gated around actually having to heal and mana constraints (not so much SCH). You hardly have to heal in EX dungeons and the pulls are well spaced apart for OOC mana regen to kick in. Healer DPS is fine as is, please stop pushing your agenda. You do the same thing on the healer forums.

[ZanaAmariyo]

I'm sustaining 1,000 plus DPS

That's nice.