Feedback: Class Balance in The Feast 4v4 (Tier List Included)

[RiceisNice]

1: You don't understand how Prism works.

It's a placed AOE that cannot be removed like a debuff. Also, WHM gets most of their healing done through preparing HOTs, not from casting. Repose doesn't need to be changed, as the nerf has already made it much more difficult to use than before.

The AoE on the ground is present because of a buff. Much like shadowflare, sacred soil, and such. Regen also doesn't help against focus fire. It helps against damage that's spread apart, but being able to get cure II off undoes a lot of incoming damage, espesically since they removed the healing debuff reduction.


Also the nerf made it "more difficult to use"? It's execution is the same.

2: How can you discount Hypercharge? That's an absurd way of thinking..."Oh, my 10% damage increase doesn't count!" It absolutely counts. Not only for you, but for your melee and tank as well! Also, you can SPOT the bard burst incoming, you cannot spot the MCH burst incoming. If I have both bard dots on me, I know I am in trouble and can LOS. You cannot say the same for a MCH.

You can predict it just as much as a BRD burst because they're both going to be using cooldowns. A burst without cooldowns like raging strikes and hawkeye is a huge damage loss and you more than likely will not be killing anything.

I didn't discount hypercharge's debuff for their damage,

They're not that far off until you factor in debuffs (and hypercharge is on 120 seconds, so it's not going to line up unless you want to delay your burst, which at that point it's not as frequent as you're saying)

But in context, it's not going to stack with full swing (which is stronger and is a given because of tanks), which is more than likely going to be coordinated for a burst. You could say that you won't be able to predict whois going to be burst, but in all consideration, all 3 melees have fetter ward which means they're going to be out of the question, leaving the ranged and healer. You could wait it off, but at that point you're not getting the first hit and most likely lose momentum over the middle arena.

Not to mention a BRD is going to be applying DoTs on everyone anyway for bloodletter. It's going to be just as predictable on whose going to get hit when a tank or melee comes up to your face.

Please tell the whole story before you start listing numbers.

I already pointed this out in the very same post you quoted.

[Renault]

Snip

1: Repose is now more difficult to use because the duration is halved, meaning it has half the effectiveness. You have to make tougher decision and use it at key moments, as the duration is halved. So you half the time of sleep. It's cut in half.

2: You don't understand what I mean when I say "see the burst coming". EX: Bard can only burst when dots are up. DRG burst is inc when you see Vorpal thrust. Warrior burst is inc at 5 stacks of abandon. Just because a MCH has their buffs up, that burst could come, on ANY target, in a 20+ second period. That is not "seeing it coming".

[Exira]

1: Repose is now more difficult to use because the duration is halved, meaning it has half the effectiveness. You have to make tougher decision and use it at key moments, as the duration is halved. So you half the time of sleep. It's cut in half.

2: You don't understand what I mean when I say "see the burst coming". EX: Bard can only burst when dots are up. DRG burst is inc when you see Vorpal thrust. Warrior burst is inc at 5 stacks of abandon. Just because a MCH has their buffs up, that burst could come, on ANY target, in a 20+ second period. That is not "seeing it coming".

To add to this barrage is a DEAD giveaway that the burst is coming and many people watch for it Im noticing. MCH doesn't have the dead giveaway that BRD does. They both have to pop buffs but so does everyone. I'm not sure what to do about balance but you can't deny that MCH burst is way harder to predict

[Renault]

To add to this barrage is a DEAD giveaway that the burst is coming and many people watch for it Im noticing. MCH doesn't have the dead giveaway that BRD does. They both have to pop buffs but so does everyone. I'm not sure what to do about balance but you can't deny that MCH burst is way harder to predict

And that's just it. I do not mind bards as much, even though they have the potential to 100-0, because I can ANTICIPATE it and PREPARE. This game's net code is not kind to reactions, as if you are a reactionary player, you are going to die 99% of the time.

[RiceisNice]

1: Repose is now more difficult to use because the duration is halved, meaning it has half the effectiveness. You have to make tougher decision and use it at key moments, as the duration is halved. So you half the time of sleep. It's cut in half.

Which doesn't make it more difficult to use, but lowering it's effectiveness. Nothing's changed because you didn't want to waste sleep DRs before or after the change.

2: You don't understand what I mean when I say "see the burst coming". EX: Bard can only burst when dots are up. DRG burst is inc when you see Vorpal thrust. Warrior burst is inc at 5 stacks of abandon. Just because a MCH has their buffs up, that burst could come, on ANY target, in a 20+ second period. That is not "seeing it coming".

Cleaner shot has a 10 second duration (and is a buff no less which can get knocked off by OIP and similar abilities) , along side the cooldowns and reassemble (at which point they're committed to using clean shot). Likewise with warrior, 5 stacks of abandon doesn't mean a burst is coming in, that's normally paired with both full swing and berserk, at least if their intention is to floor someone.

To add to this barrage is a DEAD giveaway that the burst is coming and many people watch for it Im noticing. MCH doesn't have the dead giveaway that BRD does. They both have to pop buffs but so does everyone. I'm not sure what to do about balance but you can't deny that MCH burst is way harder to predict

MCH needs to line up clean shot and pop reassemble (which commits them to using that clean shot), and the clean shot proc itself only has a 10 second duration, after which you'd have to use slug shot (and chances are, it's a hard cast or instant cast without GB)

Cleaner shot is still not barrage or as good of an indication. Please try again

Between having cleaner shot ready, cooldowns up, and reassemble active, what more of an indication do you want? You're saying barrage is a dead giveaway, cleaner shot is just as much when you're lookin at other cooldowns being paired and reassemble. On top of that, ricochet still gets it's damage diluted by 100 potency at the minimum for 1 target.

[Exira]

Cleaner shot has a 10 second duration (and is a buff no less which can get knocked off by OIP and similar abilities) , along side the cooldowns and reassemble (at which point they're committed to using clean shot). Likewise with warrior, 5 stacks of abandon doesn't mean a burst is coming in, that's normally paired with both full swing and berserk, at least if their intention is to floor someone.

Cleaner shot is still not barrage or as good of an indication.

I guess the real question is why arent you ranked in your data center if you seem to have such extensive pvp knowledge and seemingly dispute every single opinion posted on these forums?

[Renault]

Which doesn't make it more difficult to use, but lowering it's effectiveness. Nothing's changed because you didn't want to waste sleep DRs before or after the change.

This statement is simply incorrect. Before, you could throw out sleeps and not really have to think about the timing or the window of CC and pressure you'd be putting on the enemy team. Now, that is a huge factor when using Repose. I'm really unsure how you can argue against this. It's like...you hit a dart board around the outer ring before, but now you have to hit a bullseye. Does that make sense to you?

Also, to your MCH point. Clean shot is not a good indication of when a MCH can burst, as the bulk of their damage does not come from clean shot. You can still 100-0 someone even without clean shot in your burst at all.

[RiceisNice]

This statement is simply incorrect. Before, you could throw out sleeps and not really have to think about the timing or the window of CC and pressure you'd be putting on the enemy team. Now, that is a huge factor when using Repose. I'm really unsure how you can argue against this. It's like...you hit a dart board around the outer ring before, but now you have to hit a bullseye. Does that make sense to you?

I get what you're saying, but running with your dart example, it's not harder to get a bullseye, which really is why repose/sleep is so devastating. A misplaced sleep is going to get cleansed or counter-played with a well-timed purify regardless of it's original duration, and a well placed sleep has a shorter duration (and even 4 seconds is still quite a long time in PvP) but is still nonetheless influential. You even mentioned it briefly, the timing of when the CC comes out is important to be something you can capitalize on.

Also, to your MCH point. Clean shot is not a good indication of when a MCH can burst, as the bulk of their damage does not come from clean shot. You can still 100-0 someone even without clean shot in your burst at all.

A reassembled Cleaner shot is their second highest potency attack at roughly 345~ potency, only behind BtE (and an undiluted ricochet assuming it crits). If that's really the case, then you might as well leave out sidewinder for BRD so they don't need both DoTs on you, and at that point their burst is stronger than MCH assuming nothing crits (which in going by your example, its going to 100-0 you just as easily). And even riding on what is a good indication or not, any competent bard would give you a 2~ second window of reaction on when a empyreal barrage is going to happen between using barrage and casting empyreal arrow right after, which is about the same timeframe it takes for a MCH to throw out four oGCDs (bind>BtE>Ricochet>GR)

[Renault]

I get what you're saying, but running with your dart example, it's not harder to get a bullseye.

I stopped reading here. If you think this way, then there is no reasoning with you. You do not play White Mage, and you are not even in the top 100 players on your Data Center. I was not going to question your credibility, because I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but this right here just goes to show you mean only to argue without basis. I am not here to argue on the internet, I'm here to discuss the game mode with people and take viewpoints of different changes that could/should happen.