Blood Weapon / other DRK suggestions:

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Yes it'd be nice if Dark Knights got more OT utility but not like this, so many tanks would use these sacrificing abilities because it "gives more emnity" or "does more dmg must use it for max threat!". After that they hit the floor harder then a Dragoon tanking the floor with an 8 ton brick attached to its ass. WoW did use these "sacrifice hp" abilities and did it work? Yes. In dungeons? Yes. Raids?[/B]

Not really mocking when you try to give class flavor and lore. Honestly, I can't stand how puppet people are thinking Dark Knight is actually a unique class.

Shadowknights were actually the prefered tank in some of the hardest raids due to their health manipulation because some times healers got stuff on them or had to cure cures and couldn't focus on completely healing and doing mechanics themselves. Yes though, different games. However, the classes of this game are just way too similar. You can't even deny that and .. you honestly didn't.

I'm truly sorry, but lol. Go away Nektulos, just get out and never come back. You have no idea what you're talking about, period. You've been told this many times, and you just proved it to me, even though I've always seen you as a wannabe creative person, but that was me putting in some effort and turning a blind eye on your threads.

DRK is designed to be the antithesis of a tank in FFXI (not gonna go over the classic iterations again) by giving it its signature ability/ies-high risk/reward DD role, so give up there. Just give up, learn to love DRK here, which is a tank, like I did, or stick to WAR and shut up already, because at this point, you've got someone else against you, me. And you've got enough people on these forums against you already.

Dark Knight was actually designed in FFXI to be a DPS class, not a Tank class. So yes, it was that way; however the issue is they turned it into a tank class but added none of the fun or the flavor. I do love Dark Knight, as what it should be; a class that is based upon sacrifice; aka the perfect guardian.

People defend this game's choices to death honestly. I've never seen so many people who will just love anything; just because. Even when people make suggestions 10 people come in and defend it asking for it to stay the same; as if people can't even see the balance, unbalance, or how unflavorful things are.

The classes themselves, lack lore; and the stories are based upon someone else, not about the class or you.

Anyways; I don't like arguing with either of you; because you don't even offer suggestions that are better then mine. You don't really bring anything interesting to the table to me; just like the current state of the class you lack flavor and creativity.

Now, enough of these forums.. Back to DS3!!!

You want to know what really ruined today's genre of games? Roles. If FFXI didn't focus so much on roles and focused more around classes and what they could do; like the original final fantasy, updated the graphics and engine to not be bad like FFXIV they would of probably had quite the amazing game.




To best describe Dark Knight right now though, its pretty much bread and cheese. Not cooked, not anything. Just plain jane american cheese and bread. I offer to put tomado on it to give it some flavor and ham and people go nuts saying its perfect.

[Tanathya]

You just keep proving that you barely know anything. I will always be disappointed in what they turned DRK into, so I stopped looking at it as a DRK and enjoy it as is. I will never defend their choice but sadly it's what we got. You don't like it? No one's forcing you to play it. DRK's way of protecting others is by killing them quick and sacrificing themselves in the process, but they made it a generic tank, so again, learn to love it or leave. If it was for me, this game would've been closer to what FFXI was/is, but no one's put a gun to my head to play this. Like I said countless times, they had to take its classical ability in order to make it a tank, that's done and they're no turning back. So please, stop.

[Tanathya]

Your suggestions are basically to dumb down the job; if they were creative then it'd be fun to at least read, but you're just taking out dark arts' effects. I personally would like a more engaging mechanic, but I definitely don't want the job to be simplified even more. You're not being original, you sound like you're bad at it and want it to be made easier.

P.S.: Can't edit on phone.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Your suggestions are basically to dumb down the job; if they were creative then it'd be fun to at least read, but you're just taking out dark arts' effects. I personally would like a more engaging mechanic, but I definitely don't want the job to be simplified even more. You're not being original, you sound like you're bad at it and want it to be made easier.

P.S.: Can't edit on phone.

Those weren't suggestions. Merely fixes until they make real changes to fix the class. Kind of like they did Warrior.

There are several reasons why I don't like Dark Arts. One being its a very short cooldown in a game that restricts both GCD/OCD. OCDs have a 0.5 second use between GCDs to make it easier for controller users, thus it some times can be very hard to use. The second reason I don't like Dark Arts is it doesn't feel like an enhancement to the abilities. The "Dark Arts" abilities are basicly what other classes normally get at full strength, yet it feels like they gutted the abilities just to make them use Dark Arts. Another reason I don't like it is 50% of the time it isn't worth using Dark Arts for the abilities (besides at low level) because you get your mana back at a snails pace to what you get if you burn, unless you leave Tank Stance, in which your taking a ton of damage because your damage reductions are even worse then what a Warrior gets besides Magic, but magic is limited to a few and between fights. (breathe)

[Tanathya]

They aren't fixes, they are suggestions. Also, they don't need to be fixed, or should I remind you how you regard Sole Survivor?

The job doesn't need any fix per se, it does what is intended to do from the get go. That it could use some OT utility is something everyone agrees, that the job is broken is something you made up. Having a combo finisher with a potency of 400 I can't consider that weak. Again, you sound like you're bad at the job and want it to be dumbed down for you, so you don't need to worry about managing mp (which isn't even hard to begin with). Parry, or more specifically Dark Dance, could use a tweak so it became a somewhat reliable cd for tank busters I can agree, but then again, the ability itself isn't broken. Dark Mind has a really low recast, that's something favourable too. You're just wrong, your suggestions exist to make the job way worse, not better.

[Awful]

I know Drk is borrowed from paladin and met from the other side of war no one can deny that but it's not broken at all it's a good mix of both while throwing in it's own flavor (Dark arts, great AoE, MP management, automatic +15% dmg you never let drop, and a gap closer). You mentioned Rift however, it's just a WoW clone I played it was okay until that itch I had came back and realized it was just WoW with more talent trees.

Everyone knows that Dark Knights sacrificed HP to use their abilities I get that's why you're upset Nek but the class is what it is and it's not going anywhere anytime soon you either like it or you don't but these recommendations are not good and would make a lot of people not want to play the class anymore. Also comparing it to Samurai doesn't fit in well with me either if Samurai gets released soon it'll be a DPS we don't need anymore tanks 3 classes with their own abilities and throughput is fine by me.

[Yuni_Queen]

No, I don't use a Parser. I look at abilities and see a higher potential of damage. However, admitting to using a parser is a bannable offense, do you use one? If so tell me so I can report you. :P

If you don't use parser, don't post about damage dealt, because you know nothing about damage dealt!

Magic defense? no, it's a trash, why, 30% off from special abilities reduction with 60 sec cooldown is a trash.
Parry needs a fix, but not Dark Dance you refer to.

You don't like DRK (or maybe just too hard for you? WAR and PLD are indeed easier classes)- don't play and stop making mess here. DRK is a fun class, this opinion is shared by almost all main DRKs, so maybe just give up?

...

No, of course i don't use parser! Of course not! Please don't report me! ;___;
You expected something like that, maybe?

[Cabalabob]

Shadowknight, Necromancer+Tank Pet, Dark Knight in XI (tank), Reaver in RIFT (before it was abolished and changed into a crappy DPS class..). And probably soon to be Dire Lord in Pantheon.
I think even Death Knights in WoW had HP sacrificing abilities before they were nerfed and dumped down and changed a million times.

Just because you don't know how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work. I also bring up Samurai because Dark Knight has Samurai skills, parry tanking sounds more like a Samurai thing, and the developers probably were making Samurai And Dark Knight and decided to shove those skills into Dark Knight because its easier.

Just blatantly saying it doesn't work tells me you have little experience in other games. It does work, you just have to be smart with it.

Also, Soul Eater could work: Sacrificing 10% life to make the next three attacks heal you for 10% each hit and deal more damage? I mean seriously, its that easy; sure its risky but that has flavor to it as well. Maybe your at full HP with no heavy hits coming with regeneration and simply don't need it? Maybe the White Mage is using his biggest heal and it will heal you to full regardless of how much HP you have, so you use it right before?

I don't think anyone, developers especially want to try new things. I mean, the developers are afraid to add anything in cause it can be abused. That is why we never get anything interesting in video games these days.

Here, I can make up an ability in 5 seconds that would work.

____________

Dark Mind
Activate to sacrifice 10% of your life. Your next 3 attacks deal 50 more potency and heal you for 10% of your max life each hit.

Dread Spikes:
20% of all damage is prevented and reflected as physical damage onto the enemy, while lowering damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity.

Blood Price
Activate to sacrifice 10% of your life. Grants healing over time effect to self, Increases damage dealt by 10%.

Blood Weapon
Drench your weapon in your own blood. Sacrifice 20% of your own life over 20 seconds to increases attack speed by 10% and converts a large amount of physical damage dealt into HP. This combos well with Dread Spikes.

Abyssal Drain
Plunge your sword in the ground and root yourself and to channel an attack that drains all targets around you. Deals more damage in potency and heals more the more health the target has. Take the animation from Unleash.

Shadowskin
Pledge yourself to a demon of shadows surrounding you with a shield. Decrease life by 1% every second for 20 seconds.
Decreases damage taken by 20%.
Short recast.

Sole Survivor
Drain 8% health from all grouped allies to restore 15% of your own health every second for 5 seconds.

Unleash
Sacrifice 5% of your life to deal unaspected damage with a potency of 120 to target and enemies near it. Absorbs 100% of damage dealt as HP.

Syphon Strike
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Hard Slash
Combo Potency: 260
Combo Bonus: Increases your max health by 15% for 10 seconds.

Souleater
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Syphon Strike
Combo Potency: 320
Combo Effect: Heals the Dark Knight for 10% of his max life.

March of Death
Increases the party's casting speed reduction by 30%. When an ally or enemy dies add 5 seconds to the current duration, has no limit.

Stuff like this.

The largest issue with people is they think "Sacrifice life to improve dps!?"

Don't know about shadowknight, but your other examples... FFXI DRK was not a tank it was a dps that could do tank things kind of sort of not really, necromancer + tank pet... Really? That's like trying to claim SMN with Titan pet here is a tank... And your other examples by your own admission were changed or reworked because it didn't work... So all you have is shadowknight and based on every other example you gave that's probably not true either.

So your argument that it is too much like samurai is because it parries... Ignoring the fact that parry is the only defensive stat in the game, WAR uses parry more than DRK does having +10% parry from defiance and raw intuition making it 100% parry from the front, is WAR just a samurai too? How about dragoon? Samurai's have been known to use spears and dragoon has keen flurry, is dragoon now just a samurai clone?

It doesn't work because the whole point of a tank is to mitigate damage, it's insanely counterintuitive to have your mitigation hurt you. Either it has to compensate for itself which defeats the point of it even hurting you, or it's going to be a healers nightmare as they have to heal through the damage you're taking as well as the damage you're inflicting on yourself... To prevent damage?!

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Don't know about shadowknight, but your other examples... FFXI DRK was not a tank it was a dps that could do tank things kind of sort of not really, necromancer + tank pet... Really? That's like trying to claim SMN with Titan pet here is a tank... And your other examples by your own admission were changed or reworked because it didn't work... So all you have is shadowknight and based on every other example you gave that's probably not true either.

So your argument that it is too much like samurai is because it parries... Ignoring the fact that parry is the only defensive stat in the game, WAR uses parry more than DRK does having +10% parry from defiance and raw intuition making it 100% parry from the front, is WAR just a samurai too? How about dragoon? Samurai's have been known to use spears and dragoon has keen flurry, is dragoon now just a samurai clone?

It doesn't work because the whole point of a tank is to mitigate damage, it's insanely counterintuitive to have your mitigation hurt you. Either it has to compensate for itself which defeats the point of it even hurting you, or it's going to be a healers nightmare as they have to heal through the damage you're taking as well as the damage you're inflicting on yourself... To prevent damage?!

Necromancer + Tank pet was one of the first classes to raid tank a boss due to its ability to ignore control effects. Unfortunately they are not a problem in this game because nobody can get charmed and CC is almost nonexistent.

Depends. If your hurting yourself to mitigate three times the damage you lost by hurting yourself or more, then how is it counter intuitive?

If it was 100/100 I would agree with you, but there would be no point to it.

It is essentially gambling yourself, and extremely skill based at that. Of course, can't have it being 'too' hard for players.

I also don't consider parry a defensive stat. I consider critical hit rating much more 'defensive' because it actually raises your damage, and more damage means less time in combat which reduces damage you take in the first place.

[Claymore65]

I also don't consider parry a defensive stat. I consider critical hit rating much more 'defensive' because it actually raises your damage, and more damage means less time in combat which reduces damage you take in the first place.

Definition of Defensive: "Made or carried on for the purpose of resisting attack: "

Please. Don't make the "Offense is the Best Defense" argument with regard to stats in games. While on some level I agree that high damage can push phases/etc, on a basic level parry reduces more damage than crit, because it actually reduces damage. It reduces damage, thus it is a defensive stat. Saying otherwise negates the basic definition of defensive.

While I disagree with your entire post on Dark Knights, especially since Dark Arts is the mechanic I'd want to see expanded instead of made useless, this just goes too far. Crit is an offensive stat, and Parry is a defensive one (albeit one that isn't particular effective). Saying otherwise is inane.