How often do the different Races inter-mingle with each other?

[Theodric]

It's supposedly pretty rare and frowned upon by many within Eorzea but that is very rarely shown to be the case within the game itself. I have my suspicions as to why - that it's to appease the delicate sensibilities of those who would freak out if an NPC reacted negatively to their catgirl - but it's a real shame that a setting that likes to present itself as being 'gritty' only ever shows such things as being the domain of antagonists.

In short, I have no reason to believe that the whole angle of 'adventurers are more tolerant' is little more than an excuse to bury racism until it's time to try and make Garlemald's or Ishgard's nastier elements look even worse.

It's a real shame that the protagonists in this game are very modern in their morality. I suppose that's why I, personally, find them so boring. Imagine the tension if, for example, Aymeric wasn't all that keen on outsiders but swallowed his pride for the greater good of his people? Instead, he's without any flaw - and every Ishgardian who expresses contempt towards non-Ishgardians is pushed as a villain/antagonist. Yawn.

[Berethos]

It's supposedly pretty rare and frowned upon by many within Eorzea but that is very rarely shown to be the case within the game itself. I have my suspicions as to why

In other words, you've twisted the possible motivation behind the tolerance of adventurers to fit your own conspiracy theory. Mmkay.

Look, not everything is a bid to make Garlemald look bad.

[Theodric]

In other words, you've twisted the possible motivation behind the tolerance of adventurers to fit your own conspiracy theory. Mmkay.

Look, not everything is a bid to make Garlemald look bad.

Nice try, but no - that's not the case at all. I just think it's a shame that there's no real racism displayed in-game by the protagonists. I find politically correct protagonists dull and tiresome. They don't all need to be edgy anti-heroes either, of course, but some variety would be pretty neat. I want more heroes with flaws that fit the setting. Not heroes who are 'too cocky' or 'overestimate their abilities but somehow prevail against all odds anyway'.

I just feel like the whole 'adventurers are more tolerant' thing is just an excuse to avoid touching on racism at all unless it's to add a stereotypical bad trait to an established antagonist.

I mean, there's a lot of lore hidden away that isn't showcased. Ul'dah screwed over the Beast Races and had them exiled from the city. It's barely mentioned in-game. Gridania in 1.0 was a lot more xenophobic...but again, it isn't really showcased in-game to the same extent.

[Kallera]

I just feel like the whole 'adventurers are more tolerant' thing is just an excuse to avoid touching on racism at all unless it's to add a stereotypical bad trait to an established antagonist.

I mean, there's a lot of lore hidden away that isn't showcased. Ul'dah screwed over the Beast Races and had them exiled from the city. It's barely mentioned in-game. Gridania in 1.0 was a lot more xenophobic...but again, it isn't really showcased in-game to the same extent.

I'm pretty sure there is some of that "keeping it on the down low because real life" going on too. Not that i'd want everyone to be jerks, far from it, it just seems like too convienient at times, and im sure its to keep player sensibilities in mind. Best not get any more specific.

[CyrilLucifer]

I'm tempted to agree with Theodric. Spoilering in case the topic has moved on, I haven't read the whole thread yet.

Honestly, the issues with racism and xenophobia in-universe are very diluted in ARR. Like, we're told that Gridania is xenophobic but I've never actually felt that way, even as a Duskwight.

Even doing something like the Archer questline where one character is all hostile and angsty towards outsiders, I never felt it. In fact, this hostile character was condemned. SE is sending me mixed messages here; Gridania is supposed to be insular, yet the one NPC that actually shows such behavior is scolded for it. I actually liked the guy, though, he was super cute and tsundere for you by the time the questline ended.

The same goes with Ishgard, really. Once we actually got in, I didn't really feel like they were terribly xenophobic.

It's kind of a big problem with ARR in general in that the city lore relies a lot of tell-don't-show. Which is really a shame for me, because I generally find inter-racial politics and long-standing grudges in fantasy to be extremely fascinating and they tend to be some of my favorite aspects of lore.

PS: Needs more sympathetic Duskwights. I guess Urianger uses a Duskwight model, so maybe he counts?

[Lauront]

Aye, agreed with all the above.

The treatment of the different races is kinda odd if there's supposed to be tension. XI handled racial tensions better. Non-Elvaan in San d'Oria? You'd be looked down on. Same with the Galka in Bastok - they were treated as nothing more than disposable labor forces. The Mithra and Tarutaru seemed to get along pretty well though. I always figured that Eorzea was a melting pot and that the differing races had gotten acclimated to each other.

And I just noticed that both games had a prevalent female human/elf hybrid.

They're a scourge. I'm bored to death of half-elves. And this is in a setting where they make a bit more sense than the majority of settings featuring them (usually with paper-thin lore rationale for it), given the possibility of many of the major races having a common origin. Still, the less I see of them, the better.

[CyrilLucifer]

I enjoyed how XI focused on the racial issues in a more show-don't-tell manner. For example, Galka were literally lower class citizens and they hated it, but you're never really told flat out that Bastok is "racist" or "xenophobic" or "insular" as XIV likes to throw the terms around. In fact, it's San d'Oria that is considered those.

Instead, with Bastok we're shown exactly how the Galka are relegated to one part of the city and the main foe you face in the vanilla storyline is the embodiment of their hate and grudges - and sadness, because Cornelia was his lover and she was murdered before his eyes. You draw these conclusions on your own, rather than being told them.

And with AU, you couldn't even enter half of the city even when you were finally granted access. When you were allowed to enter the other half, it was only in a CS, you had to have special permission, and you had to be guided.

(And yes, Sandy was a good deal nastier to foreigners than Gridania and even Ishgard.)

[Berethos]

I'm tempted to agree with Theodric.

Whether or not he's right about the story needing to do more with the issues of racism and xenophobia isn't actually what I was responding to...

It was the conclusion for why it was designed that way that I criticized, nothing more and nothing less.

Regarding Ishgard's xenophobia...most of that is concentrated in the 35-40 questing experience, and at that time we hadn't really proven ourselves to Ishgard. Once we have, via that story and the stuff in the 2.x patch cycle, our experience with them is going to be different...

Now, once you're actually in Ishgard? The main thing then isn't xenophobia, it's class division, which is very much present. Outside of cutscenes you never see the poor in the pillars, and while they spend their time worrying about whether so-and-so Lord's son noticed them or not, or the deal they got gold and silvery jewels, or even having trouble figuring out which store to go to because they spent too much time playing cards instead of studying (so even the kids live differently)...

Those in the Brume are dealing with hunger, and damage to the city, and injury, and the cold...

And those divisions between the rich and the poor, nobles and not, in Ishgard has been pretty central to the story so far. Ishgard's xenophobic nature really only applies when you're outside Ishgard, and is also the whole reason you can't go there until you've earned it in the story.

[Theodric]

Whether or not he's right about the story needing to do more with the issues of racism and xenophobia isn't actually what I was responding to...

It was the conclusion for why it was designed that way that I criticized, nothing more and nothing less.

...and yet I still stand by my words. You don't really see any of the protagonists express the same views as many of the more conservative Ishgardians do. Even in regards to the disdain towards the poor whenever a character expresses contempt for those living in poverty they're almost always presented as an antagonist.

I'll admit, we've yet to see the actual resolution to the Ishgard storyline so there's a chance I may be proven wrong. I hope I am - because I want Ishgard's 'grit' and morally dubious nature to persist. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of sweeping changes to fantasy nations that lead to modern real world ideals becoming dominant. I want conflict and protagonists that are rough around the edges. Who aren't 'politically correct'.

[Lauront]

I don't quite understand what your issue is with his post, I took the catgirl comment as a joke. Why would he be serious about it and what would it have to do with Garlemald?