Request - DO NOT delete parry from the game

[aleph_null]

That's only true for DRK and PLD > 53. For everyone else, it will boost your DPS if you let it run at least six ticks. TP may be an issue for PLD, but if you work in Flash and/or Stoneskin enough, it won't be a problem, and it's not a problem for WAR at all.

My bad forgot to add that it was about war.

I have never once anywhere ever seen that Parry (or any other stat in FFXIV) had diminishing returns. Where are you getting that?

If the parry rate increment per point of parry is fixed, then it will have diminishing return as you stack more, since the block power is fixed, unlike crit which boosts the crit dmg as well as crit rate.

[Jpec07]

My bad forgot to add that it was about war.

It is always a DPS gain for WAR. I thought the community had established that.

If the parry rate increment per point of parry is fixed, then it will have diminishing return as you stack more, since the block power is fixed, unlike crit which boosts the crit dmg as well as crit rate.

That's not parry having diminishing returns, that's Crit having incremental returns. It's the only stat that does that. Parry has consistent returns, and so don't Det, SkS, Str, Vit, and every other stat in the game. Diminishing returns would be if there was a curve on the graph such that the more parry you have, the less parry affects your incoming damage - so 35 points of parry will always translate to +1% parry rate, giving parry a cap at 3500 where 100% of incoming physical hits will be parried. If parry had diminishing returns, it would take progressively more parry to increase your rate--35 points to a percent could be true at 10% parry, but if it had diminishing returns, it would take 40-50 parry to get +1% parry rate at 20%, 60-70 at 30%, etc. (or something like that).

Parry is:
Not Affected by Crit.
Not Affected by Str.
Not Affected by Vit.
Cannot Block Magic.

Thus, inferior to all other stats.

If Parry:
Critical Parry = x2 Reduction in damage.
Strength increased magic damage reduction from parries.
Vitality increased physical damage reduction from parries.
Magic can be parried, but at 10% rather then 20%.

It would be a good stat. I would absolutely love it, and it would be more equal in power to other stats.

I never thought I'd say this for one of your posts, but /signed

I mean, I don't think it's inferior to other stats (because comparing offensive stats to defensive stats is like comparing apples to oranges), but I do like how you've built out the interaction there.

YOU'RE TOO LATE

*deletes Parry*

[Brian_]

It's because for the first wing of Alexander, there wasn't nearly enough physical damage for it to make a difference, and the main thing that was killing groups wasn't dead tanks, but failed DPS checks and boss enrages. Progression groups needed every scrap of DPS they could find, and that meant tanks running content with 15,000 HP and as much Str/Det/Crit/SkS as they could get their hands on. Simply, the encounters were not designed to require heavy mitigation, and were designed to require higher DPS than the groups could put out at the iLvls they were attempting with.

Except Midas hasn't really changed. DPS is still incredibly important in progression and helps you mitigate way more potential damage than parry ever will. Even more so than Gordias in many ways.

What has changed in Midas is that while the DPS checks are no longer auto-wipes, they are still soft checks. In progression, you don't have the HP to live through soft checks for very long. Unlike in Gordias where DPS would let you skip mechanics, those mechanics were largely just repeated mechanics. In Midas, DPS lets you skip unique mechanics.

In A5S, you can skip the entire zoo phase and all the positioning and mechanics associated with that. You will never have to deal with the pig baiting, the petrifaction directions, LB coordination, minotaur positioning, etc.

In A6S, for Blaster, you can phase to avoid the second and third tank buster which allows the debuff from the first tank buster to expire during the add phase. The difference is 4 vul stacks vs. 6+ vul stacks overall. You take way less damage with better DPS.

In A6S, for Blaster, you can kill the boss before the second set of charge mirages. Since charge mirages are probably one the mechanics that people are struggling the most with, that's a pretty big deal.

In A6S, for Brawler, you can push to add-phase with fewer attachments and tank busters. Skipping one of the 3rd stack tank busters is probably more mitigated damage than all the damage you will parry throughout all of A6S. With better DPS, you can also phase with 2 Chakrams instead of 3. This isn't a big deal if people have good raid awareness and avoid them but things don't always go that smoothly.

In A6S, for Swindler, if you don't kill the snipers before their 2nd shots, you are going to need some precision shielding or a lot of melded VIT on your gear during progression. Having better DPS = more raid mitigation in this scenario than any amount of parry.

My static is currently still working through Vortexer / Enrage so I can't comment on A7S and A8S, but purely from the videos, those fights seem to fit the same general mold.

In other words statements like this...

Parry is still the best stat for mitigation (yes, even mitigation-by-damage), but it doesn't feel like a very strong stat, and loses its value in magic-heavy fights and fights with prolonged periods of no white damage.

...that lack any relevant context are misleading and flat out wrong in practical application. Talk about the effectiveness of any stat without proper context is meaningless.

Which leads me to a passing comment on another issue...

It is always a DPS gain for WAR. I thought the community had established that.

It's not. And, the community established that.

[SpookyGhost]

It's not. And, the community established that.

Just want to clarify, you're being nit-picky about the word "always", yeah? Not thinking that Fracture on WAR is a DPS loss in general?

[aleph_null]

That's not parry having diminishing returns, that's Crit having incremental returns.

It's diminishing return with respect to the parry rate you already have. Putting 35 parry points (1% rate) on someone who has 50% parry rate would be less overall additional mitigation than on someone who has 10% parry rate. It's similar to SkS/SpS having increasing return, taking 0.01s off your gcd when you have 2.40s gcd is better than when you have 2.50s. If crit doesn't boost crit dmg, it would definitely has diminishing return as well, since adding 1% more crit rate when you have 50% crit rate would give less relative additional dps compared to when you have 20% crit rate. Basically anything that scales linearly would have diminishing return relative to the amount you already have.

And my prev post about fracture on war was a reference to someone's claim on another thread about fracture being dps and TP loss even for war.