Request - DO NOT delete parry from the game

[Zven]

I keep seeing threads like this. Someone has an opinion about how they don't fancy this mechanic or another, so they want to completely scrap it. It's everyday on here guys... Ludicrous complaints about abilities that painfully show people have no idea how to even use them.

"Sole Survivor is useless! I never use it!"... o_o;

"DA+DP is useless! I only need DA for Souleater combo!"... do you read stuffs?

"Living Dead is trash! too hard!"... It has AWESOME synergy with a well-played WHM using benediction, its literally my favorite thing when executed properly

"Parry... I hate it! DESTROY IT!"... stahp plz..

Maybe, make parry a bit more relevant; change the scaling, modify parry abilities a bit, whatever. Don't dumb this game down SE, please. I quit every past MMO because people whined and developers made it ultra casual, homogenizing classes or just completely removing 'talent trees' or aspects of the game that give flavor and diversity. Sure, there's always going to be people who min/max everything and theorycraft all night til they puke. However, great games find a way to closely balance a vast amount of game elements to make that theory-crafting challenging. Even if there is 1 optimal build, its nice when there are multiple viable builds and the player can inject some of their personal play-style.

Let's provide feedback on how to tune classes (not delete them), the game is pretty great imo, I love the class designs.

my 2 cents

[Zari]

They ARE changing parry. We just dont know how yet
Also note the only agreed on thing there you mentioned really is the parry one.

The rest of those arguments are just Nektulos Tuor or whatever his name is being the ignorant little idiot he is, dont pay attention to him.

[Eloah]

on the issue of parry, and similar skills that use things like it, its about how the skill is when you aren't in that specific role. Skills like Repraisel and shield swipe, bash?, swipe. its how to adjust the stat so that these skills still feel good even our of OT stance, or the like.

[Jpec07]

There's really only one thread right now against Parry. There are some who hate the very nature of it (RNG-based mitigation), and some who think it's really valuable. But we all agree that it needs improvement.

I spent a few minutes this morning rereading some of the old threads where the poor nature of Parry was revealed. What we've got for Parry now looks something like this:

function rng(){//returns random integer 1-100}

$dodge = $enemy->hitRate - ($character->hasBuff("da_dark_dance") ? 20 : 0) + rng() < 100;
$crit = $character->hasBuff("awareness") ? false : $character->hasBuff("raw_intuition") && $enemy->position($character) != 'front' ? true : rng() < $enemy->critRate;
$block = $enemy->position($character) != front || $attack->isMagic ? false : $character->hasBuff("sheltron") ? true : $character->blockRate + ($character->hasBuff("bulwark") ? 60 : 0) > rng();
$parry = $enemy->position($character) != front || $attack->isMagic ? false : $character->hasBuff("raw_intuition") ? true : $character->parryRate + ($character->hasBuff("dark_dance") ? 20 : $character->hasBuff("e_dark_dance") || $character->hasBuff("da_dark_dance") ? 30 : 0) > rng();

// This next part is what we call the combat table.
//
// We're not including things like Living Dead or Hallowed Ground or Rampart,
// since listing all of the various debuffs would make this reeeeeeally long.
//
// Note, it's highly likely that the actual code has a case-switch statement instead
// of a long if/else string, because those are a bit faster.
if($dodge)
{
    $damage = 0;
}
else
if($crit)
{
    $damage = 1.5 * $attack->damage;
}
else
if($block)
{
    $damage = $attack->damage * (100 - $character->blockStrength);
}
else
if($parry)
{
    $damage = .8 * $attack->damage;
else
{
    $damage = $attack->damage;
}

I'd like to see the combat table changed so that they aren't if/else statements, so you can parry and/or block critical strikes, so an attack can be both parried AND blocked, etc. My idea would look more like this:

if($dodge)
{
    $damage = 0;
}
else
{
    $damage = $attack->damage;
    if($crit)
    {
        $damage = 1.5 * $damage;
    }
    if($block)
    {
        $damage = $damage * (100 - $character->blockStrength);
    }
    if($parry)
    {
        $damage = .8 * $damage;
    }
}

This way, the rolls and their sequence are preserved, but we no longer have stats competing with one another. I'd still like to see Parry given a better conversion rate than 35 points to a percent, and maybe given the ability to grow parry mitigation (so instead of .8 * $damage, we could do $damage * (100-$character->parryStrength)).

I did the math in another thread, and even with its poor scaling, Parry is still the best stat for mitigation (yes, even mitigation-by-damage), but it doesn't feel like a very strong stat, and loses its value in magic-heavy fights and fights with prolonged periods of no white damage.

[Zven]

Appreciate the effort for this Jpec, I'm still learning! If I'm being honest, I don't 100% understand it all but I think I get the idea -- better if block/parry didn't compete with each other.

Tbh even if it is designed so you can only block or parry, I'm OK with that. Your idea sound great too though. Granted, if it stayed how it is, yes it probably should be buffed and higher than 35 points per % parry but that's where tuning and balance comes in. I left my PLD at 50 and pretty much only play DRK at this point, so I can't comment on the block/parry debacle.

Parrying feels great on my DRK when I MT though. Its not reliable on a single tank buster, but for multiple physical attacks or high attk speed boss combos it IS reliable imho. Again, I'm not advocating melding parry, but I do like the mechanic. Every MMO I've ever played has had parry in some form, surely there is a way to redevelop it in FFXIV and build abilities around it that are enjoyable.

[Zven]

I did the math in another thread, and even with its poor scaling, Parry is still the best stat for mitigation (yes, even mitigation-by-damage), but it doesn't feel like a very strong stat, and loses its value in magic-heavy fights and fights with prolonged periods of no white damage.

This is really interesting to me if it's true, and if the math shows it I really don't understand why everyone is so butthurt about it. I'd still like to see SE continue to tune stats/abilities to where multiple builds are viable; the more tools/abilities/stats and choices we get the better imo. I welcome the idea that people can build a character to fit their style, even if there is an 'optimal' build in a vacuum that theorycrafters perpetuate.

[Anubis_Nephthys]

Parry is getting a massive rework in 3.4 or 4.0
Fear not

[Jpec07]

The way it works is that there's a series of dice rolls: dodge > crit > block > parry. If one passes, it doesn't continue. So a critical strike can be neither parried not blocked, and a blocked strike can never be parried. People did tests in that other thread to figure out how the roles worked, recording thousands of hits with various cooldowns active to see how it played out.

This is really interesting to me if it's true, and if the math shows it I really don't understand why everyone is so butthurt about it. I'd still like to see SE continue to tune stats/abilities to where multiple builds are viable; the more tools/abilities/stats and choices we get the better imo. I welcome the idea that people can build a character to fit their style, even if there is an 'optimal' build in a vacuum that theorycrafters perpetuate.

It's because for the first wing of Alexander, there wasn't nearly enough physical damage for it to make a difference, and the main thing that was killing groups wasn't dead tanks, but failed DPS checks and boss enrages. Progression groups needed every scrap of DPS they could find, and that meant tanks running content with 15,000 HP and as much Str/Det/Crit/SkS as they could get their hands on. Simply, the encounters were not designed to require heavy mitigation, and were designed to require higher DPS than the groups could put out at the iLvls they were attempting with.

The scaling issues that were highlighted were also seen as a kick while tanks were down. Parry strength used to be affected by other stats, and while it scaled more poorly in 2.x, you could still achieve high parry rates and %s by combining it with other pieces of gear. In 3.0, the strength was changed to a flat 20% mitigation on physical hits, and the scaling was determined to not be that much better than it had been, piece for piece between 2.0 iLvl 70 @50 and 3.0 iLvl 170 @60 gear (gets slightly better at 200+, but it's hard to compare tiers to one another when they used to do things so differently). And given that people thought parry was bad in 2.x, the notion of parry being bad was basically universally accepted once it was fully evaluated for 3.0 (with a few exceptions). Even if it's the best mitigation point for point, it's still considered a poor stat, because it's still not very effective, and is arguably worse than it was before.

[Zven]

Thanks for following up, this is great information man. +1

[Lemuel81]

Parry is getting a massive rework in 3.4 or 4.0
Fear not

hopefully we wont need to wait till 4.0- but you know SE