I just don't get it.

[Andevom]

Beast Tribe quests. If they had no reward, how many people would do those? wouldn't you consider beast tribe quests bad design? But I bet people who didn't like them, but did them anyways got the mount. Are content with their decision.

Probably a good chunk of people, because of the story involved with them. I think it's been proven that if they release side-story driven content with little to no rewards, people will do it.

The Delivery Moogle quests gave barely anything for the majority of their run, and people want *more* of those quests.

[Deuce]

Actually, I'd say the biggest criticism that 1.0 had was the horrendous buggy launch. They literally took something with blatantly obvious UI and communication lag, then decided it was ready to go. Maybe it was a little more complex than them just thinking the public will love anything they crap out, but that is pretty much what killed 1.0. Those of us who played it, particularly any beta players, experienced the same exact problems during the testing period, yet there it went... up for sale. QoL and things that remove them (like UI lag) affect enjoyment far more than people may realize. It's a form of displeasure that slowly builds, which is actually one of the more detrimental forms of it when involving products that aim to keep them there for long periods of time.

The UI problems and server lag was certainly 1.0's biggest flaw and ultimately its downfall. I believe to this day that if 1.0 was launched with a better UI, little lag, and more content such as quests we may never have received 2.0 and Tanaka would still be at the helm to this day. Regardless of widespread complaints about the initial combat system it is in my view not what killed the game. However, I would argue that FFXIV received a lot more mainstream criticism for the copypasta terrain while the actual playerbase were more concerned with the fact that they couldn't claim mobs let alone see them in order to do their guildleves at launch. Most people who bought FFXIV in 2010 probably didn't make it past level 15 because of the lag. Nevertheless, memes were made about the copy pasting and actual complaints were more focused on the shoddy server infrastructure and code. I believe a lot of us can remember how poorly something as simple as a launcher was implemented for 1.0. Patching that game was a whole entire nightmare by itself.

The FATEs mention, for the time, really was a great addition to the MMORPG format. ...There's a difference between something being objectively bad, and something being bad because someone is bad at how it's used.

I wasn't trying to argue that FATEs were a completely flawed design. There is a lot of merit behind the idea of wanting to populate your open world zones with players, but I believe concentrating them on FATEs was perhaps a bit short-sighted.

That having been said though, the devs have proven time and time again that they just suck at execution. Ideas are great... usually... but how they envision the player base to receive it or take part in it without destroying it, is where they fail consistently. Despite whatever Yoshi-P says about learning from their mistakes, they haven't had the reality of the situation sink in yet about their overall philosophy behind content.

I believe that this is the crux of the problem. The developers are in my view out of touch with the actual playerbase. Lord of Verminion is a perfect example of that. I remember when Yoshida mentioned that for the Golden Saucer he wanted to make sure that the minigames were actually good ones. LoV was probably the first minigame where he actually felt that it could be good. Unfortunately, its release was poorly timed and only served to grow discontent among subscribers.

"This is what they decide to spend developer resources on? A mini game?"

"We're only getting two hard mode dungeons a patch and in return we get this?"

Those aren't exact quotes, but I'm paraphrasing a lot of what the playerbase has thought and continues to think. Many people are in disbelief that LoV was given so much attention meanwhile diadem, something that players would be more likely to be interested in is implemented poorly.

It will be interesting to see what gets put on display in less than 6 or 7 months at fanfest, but if there aren't improvements or even any new conceptual ideas brought forth I can already see people groaning about the next expansion. I fear that if 4.0 is a repeat of 3.0, which insofar has been a repeat of 2.0 with more quality of life adjustments than this game will be in trouble. If you had the best console on the market when it comes to cost vs performance, but it lacks actual fun games to play, it'll fall flat on its face. Plus, if you continue to push out garbage titles a la Atari in the 80s, then the whole entire system will suffer as a result. These are simply analogies, but it's important to note that FFXIV can suffer the same fate, regardless of how good the game's systems are if the actual content is not fun or rewarding to play.

[Yukiko]

*snip*

The youth... I wish i could turn time back when i was same as you are now!
I just dont have strengh left to fight RNG over and over AGAIN, seeing rolls between 1 to 30 and losing...

(..) I do it for the rewards, but I enjoy the journey to the rewards also. (..)

Its not an adventure if you just roll a dice and challenge your luck!

[Krissey]

The youth... I wish i could turn time back when i was same as you are now!
I just dont have strengh left to fight RNG over and over AGAIN, seeing rolls between 1 to 30 and losing...


Its not an adventure if you just roll a dice and challenge your luck!

I just have this attitude that if you put enough time into it eventually it will happen...Even if it takes years just keep at it! I'm 27 btw lol

I've also been playing MMOs for at least 11 years

[CrystalRainbow]

I personally miss the days of taking a year to get to cap.

And there being content along the way that was challenging and fun but because it took so long to get to cap once you got to cap. You where so happy.

[Ehra]

Probably a good chunk of people, because of the story involved with them. I think it's been proven that if they release side-story driven content with little to no rewards, people will do it.

The Delivery Moogle quests gave barely anything for the majority of their run, and people want *more* of those quests.

Then again, how eager would people be for more Delivery Moogle or Hildibrand if you had to repeat the same quests for a minimum of 10 days before you could unlock the next step?

[RyuSaarva]

Then again, how eager would people be for more Delivery Moogle or Hildibrand if you had to repeat the same quests for a minimum of 10 days before you could unlock the next step?

well there were many wipes and vote abandons when people tried to beat ultros in duty finder so you did repeat the same quest.

[Shurrikhan]

Nice meme response. typical of people who can't defend themselves.

I'm not even the one who brought up oil change and tire change as some analogy. Someone tried to compare saving up to get a very expensive CAR, and that feeling of "yes I finally got this ride"... to saving up money to do an oil change.

And you're criticizing me? really.

It's not that hard to check back one page. I was the one who used the analogy for gear maintenance (be it condition or ilvl).

Did I use the word amazing for something like what you're describing? I literally spoke in terms like "some people" and "they". Why are people thinking this is my opinion.

Changing tires and oil is more similar to "repairing" your gear. It's not at all a fun activity but we accept it because, economy balance. I bet you don't get excited about repairing your gear right? Bad analogy on your part.

You don't think people do what they detest in this game to get what they want? Were you asleep when people complained about 3.1 relic but did it anyways?

I'll give you a different analogy, since your not focusing on the point. In fighting games people grind combos and they study yes "study" frame data. To many people doing these things are boring and not fun. (Lol work)

But the people do it anyways because they have a goal, and the reward is worth it.

Who are you to tell these people the way they play the game is "wrong".

1. Ahh, my mistake then. I thought "some people" was a broad circumlocution for "myself and others". I wasn't actually sure which side of the fence you were sitting on. I should have been more careful in my response.

If you're locked out from playing content until you update to a certain amount of gear (think min ilvl + 10 for a clear PF, for instance), and enjoy the fights but couldn't really give a damn about the gear, the distinction between those two fades pretty quickly. That said, that's just 'another population's view' in this case. And also in this case, mine. Though you are right on the money about how unexciting it is. It's a lot like repairing gear. I have to maintain (within x ilvl of max commonly available to a main class) my gear to play. It's not a hard requirement, but then again neither is clicking the repair button. (It does, however, limit me from playing my alt classes at times. I'm an alt-junkie.)

To be clear, this is by no means me hoping that gear would be even easier to get. It's simply why I'm not exactly ecstatic upon receiving new pieces. It's the same, but up to date ("repaired", if you will).

Now, when it comes to say, a beast tribe mount or a primal pony/bird, then yeah, I agree. When the anima weapon is simply a way to forego the 1000 lore cost for what may or may not be better optomized weapon, of non-upgradeable ilvl... then maybe not.

2. And it's certainly an amazingly efficient way to keep many invested. While others (to specify, myself included) on principle, and simply do it insofar as they enjoy the particular fights or have friends to compete in dps with. In either case, a few drops, quests, and flavor text just made 20+ hours of stuff to do. Way to go. (Though sometimes I wonder "and just where was all that time saved... spent?")

3. Wait, how are people aiming for mastery going to make things boring? And to most players, I would think (perhaps I'm biased), there is a difference between practicing your favorite class and grinding away at something that requires zero improvement in skill, knowledge, or mastery.

4. Fair enough.

5. I've never said that people who enjoy a grind are somehow wrong. There's no wrong way to enjoy something. There are just ways to make something less enjoyable for others. I just think that designing a game in a way that is highly dependent on people who will take what's given, whatever their complaints, without making due steps to keep players who are less okay with rehashes interested in the game, is going to gradually break down. Assuming that the game will be okay just because a large portion (still far from all) are okay with it isn't any more realistic than pandering to a minority group. They're both short-sighted, narrow-visioned, and not exactly inclusive. Ideally, it should suit the needs of as much of its population as possible, but not be satisfied merely to do so; it needs to progress before its faults start becoming fractures.

[Terribad]

I think it's the fact that he kills gear off so fast and that this game is EXTREMELY vertical.

I think he should add more options and dial it back a bit with the gear/content killing. He (along with this community) also needs to stop being so freaking scared of adding new/different content. This is THEE scariest community I've ever seen, people suggest awesome ideas to remedy this issue and the community just shoots it down with ridiculous "what ifs".

I personally miss the days of taking a year to get to cap.

And there being content along the way that was challenging and fun but because it took so long to get to cap once you got to cap. You where so happy.

I miss these days as well and I think this is a huge part of what's killing MMOs. MMOs have turned into only a gear grind when they used to be about the journey and making friends, etc. Now it's just get to max cap in 3-5 days and farm a raid over and over.

[Iromi]

Yeah I agree with OP. This game is way too vertical. I don't want pure horizontal either...ick. Ideally 1.23 patch was best..it was an amazing mix between horizontal and vertical ^^

I also am not too fond of the same predictable patches, we need more open world content, more FC content, etc etc. Mix it up SE, you guys are awesome..I know you can do it!