MCH too bursty?...

[RiceisNice]

I'm having a deja-vu...

Oh. Right.

Sorry bud', chances are that your complain won't be listened to. And you'll probably get a nerf to some of your CC as well, without any reason.

Still thinking SMN didn't need some form of adjustments? CC is a big factor in a small scale fight like feast. While I agree that some things didn't need to be touched on SMN (such as DoT durations), they needed to be toned down in relation to the cast interrupt changes (moreso if they're going to adjust the walls so it's harder to LoS) and in relation to the other ranged jobs. The bigger problem out of this is that they left WHM/BLM's CC untouched. Even with the adjustments, bind is pretty detrimental to desyncing the other team's burst, especially if they aren't coordinated enough to immediately esuna it (and no one is realistically going to use purify on it when there's TD, full swing, among other things out there)

And this isn't new either. Practically all of the ranged dps' damage outside of bursts is pitifully low (excluding BLM who previously had different problems), not just SMN. If they wanted to move away from the burst meta, then sure; but heals also need to be adjusted in relation because there's realistically no way for dps to outdps a healer's hps (espesically a WHM) without the arbitrary oom (which then slows down the pacing of the game in generals, and from what I see they want to keep the pacing fast)

[Fyce]

-Snip-

Don't you think that it doesn't make sense to try moving away from the burst meta while making healers stronger with the interrupt changes?
If SE wants people to try outDPSing the enemy healer's HPS, then you need burst as an answer to instant heals (tetra, bene, E.Dignity, Lustrate...).
If you don't have that burst, the "kill the healer if it's not the one with the defensive buff" will stay.

What's next? Life Surge removed from DRG and Full Thrust at 275 potency? NIN Kassatsu unable to make Raiton crit? BRD Barrage not working with Emp.Arrow?

Unless they want us to settle fights during culling time, and then do an unfair come back with melee LB... but that's dumb because it means "yeah, we don't want yo to burst with your skills, but rather with culling time and melee LB on heavy medals".

I really don't understand what they want to do with the PvP. Especially when they nerf one of the weakest job in terms of CC (SMN) while letting BLM sit on his 'CC king' throne.

The balance is all over the place.

Edit: on the SMN topic, Aetherflow on a 90s cooldown and Bane/Painflare/Deathflare having their potency halved on the second target and above. That would have been better imo.

[RiceisNice]

Don't you think that it doesn't make sense to try moving away from the burst meta while making healers stronger with the interrupt changes?
If SE wants people to try outDPSing the enemy healer's HPS, then you need burst as an answer to instant heals (tetra, bene, E.Dignity, Lustrate...).
If you don't have that burst, the "kill the healer if it's not the one with the defensive buff" will stay.

It's a two faced thing that really doesn't make sense , especially in relation to the changes. You're realistically not going to outdps a healer (specifically WHM)'s HPS without any burst or CC (on the enemy healer), even if they don't have the defense buff (unless they're foolish enough to do something like pop B4B or have heavy medal).

The heavy medal change (along with leaving BLM/WHM's CC unchanged) is probably the most baffling of changes to me. I mentioned it before, even as high as 2 stacks (which is 200 medals) is enough to turn a non-tank into a squishy target that gives Issac Clark a run for his money, while at hte same time it's mostly unchanged because you're still looking at 6+ stacks to bust a tank through healers.

You either want a more frequent burst that emphasises on damage, or a more powerful burst at the cost of having a longer cooldown. Just not...both. Especially when it has very little strings attached to it (compared to say MCH or even BRD because they have to apply their DoTs individually)

[Maddonious]

Unless they want us to settle fights during culling time, and then do an unfair come back with melee LB... but that's dumb because it means "yeah, we don't want yo to burst with your skills, but rather with culling time and melee LB on heavy medals".

I really don't understand what they want to do with the PvP. Especially when they nerf one of the weakest job in terms of CC (SMN) while letting BLM sit on his 'CC king' throne.

The balance is all over the place.

This is my biggest gripe to pvp but everyone lieks to tell me im wrong. I shouldnt have to wait for culling or Heavy medal to get a kill. Healers need an overall nerf (well not sch, I find that easy to deal with) to even allow people to fight properly.

Also dont dis my blm cc. Unlike a smn who can throw all his dots on someone and spread them then use 3 more INSTANT moves to burst we blms still have cast times and LoS issues. Without our blm cc helping us in 4v4 to some degree we become worthless. 15s/6s sleeps/binds dont account for much when I can only toss out 2 attacks during that time.

That being said BRD/MCH damage outside of cooldowns is just sad when you compare it to SMN/BLM.

While its low in theory at least you guys have the option to get more dps while moving then we do. Scathe scathe scathe scathe........ yeah...... if only I had the option to remove my turret status in pvp.

[NoelNoel]

I shouldnt have to wait for culling or Heavy medal to get a kill. Healers need an overall nerf

Let me stop you right here, healers do not need a nerf, (nothing needs a nerf except maybe the heavy medal system) people need to get good and focus on the same targets. Have you tried playing healer before even suggesting to nerf them? I encourage you to try it, see how "easy" you find it. Also if you actually have to wait for culling or heavy medals everytime to get kills you should reexamine your BLM gameplay...

[RiceisNice]

While its low in theory at least you guys have the option to get more dps while moving then we do. Scathe scathe scathe scathe........ yeah...... if only I had the option to remove my turret status in pvp.

If we're attacking on the move, chances are, we aren't using GB/WM. Our overall damage compared to other jobs (which is already lower to begin with) is with GB/WM, and that's before the ranged damage penalty. Our damage outside of burst really isn't any home to write home about; we have to turret just as much as a BLM with the cast times for the most part, and the payout is typically much lower. Our DPS on-the-go options essentially amounts to nothing just like scathe at this point.

Let me stop you right here, healers do not need a nerf, (nothing needs a nerf except maybe the heavy medal system) people need to get good and focus on the same targets. Have you tried playing healer before even suggesting to nerf them? I encourage you to try it, see how "easy" you find it. Also if you actually have to wait for culling or heavy medals everytime to get kills you should reexamine your BLM gameplay...

At this point in time, there's no way that you can out dps a WHM's hps unless there was an outside factor (CCs, coordinated burst,), which are incredibly few and far inbetween. That being said though, there are plenty of options to do so depending on your party composition. What really needs to be adjusted is some of the timers on CCs in relation to the interrupt changes (especially if they're going to make it harder to LoS through walll adjustments, which benefits BLMs more than anything), which isn't exclusive to just WHM/healer nerfs.

[Maddonious]

At this point in time, there's no way that you can out dps a WHM's hps unless there was an outside factor (CCs, coordinated burst,), which are incredibly few and far inbetween. That being said though, there are plenty of options to do so depending on your party composition. What really needs to be adjusted is some of the timers on CCs in relation to the interrupt changes (especially if they're going to make it harder to LoS through walll adjustments, which benefits BLMs more than anything), which isn't exclusive to just WHM/healer nerfs.

Healers wouldnt be as much of an issue if the diminishing returns allowed us to sleep/control them more. With an entire min of immunity it becomes incredibly hard to hold them in place after the start. They should lower the immunity to all cc down to 30s if they really want us to control them properly. Purify just destroys any really strong cc (blm) that we can place on them atm with only a 90s cd which is just ridiculous in terms of how short the game modes can be.

[RiceisNice]

Healers wouldnt be as much of an issue if the diminishing returns allowed us to sleep/control them more. With an entire min of immunity it becomes incredibly hard to hold them in place after the start. They should lower the immunity to all cc down to 30s if they really want us to control them properly. Purify just destroys any really strong cc (blm) that we can place on them atm with only a 90s cd which is just ridiculous in terms of how short the game modes can be.

If you're haphazardly popping purify on just any sleep/bind, you;re not gonna have it for something that's equally as big on a different front, such as full swing or holmgang. It's fine the way it is because it forces out a card on both sides. Even 6 seconds is plenty of time to make something happen in something as fast as feast, especially in relation to the burst damage we have right now.

[NoelNoel]

They should lower the immunity to all cc down to 30s if they really want us to control them properly.

I really wish more good pvp players gave their opinions on forums because reading this or stuff like making sleep last 6 sec feels like it's coming from people who just want to kill stuff in 2 sec without any challenge attached to it. Forums are full of this, it's the only feedback SE gets from us.... Terrifying.
Sleep lasting 6 sec lolol. Whatever... Start purifying your healers when they need it.

[Maddonious]

I really wish more good pvp players gave their opinions on forums because reading this or stuff like making sleep last 6 sec feels like it's coming from people who just want to kill stuff in 2 sec without any challenge attached to it. Forums are full of this, it's the only feedback SE gets from us.... Terrifying.
Sleep lasting 6 sec lolol. Whatever... Start purifying your healers when they need it.

I are great pvper! I poke the tank and break my own cc \o/. On a serious note however I know what im talking about. People are always afraid of what true competitive fighting is really about and you, like most, are always schoffing at changes made to any character or gameplay to help balance it more. As a blm my main way of fighting in pvp is CC but with the current DRs it makes my cc worthless after the first usage of a match for far to long.

If you're haphazardly popping purify on just any sleep/bind, you;re not gonna have it for something that's equally as big on a different front, such as full swing or holmgang. It's fine the way it is because it forces out a card on both sides. Even 6 seconds is plenty of time to make something happen in something as fast as feast, especially in relation to the burst damage we have right now.

Turret classes cant do that much with 6s in terms of burst beyond mch. I feel like people just pick and choose what they think reality is rather then what is currently is outside of their head. They always think the cards will fall to favor them in the mock up matches in their own renditions but you have to talk how it will actually turn out. People LoS ranged dps so those 6s that healers are down for mean nothing.

Also you wouldn't use a purify on the first 15s sleep?