Can Accuracy and Parry be removed already?

[Cherie]

Accuracy is a stat that mostly every mmo I can think of has had.... Obviously someone thinks it should be used.... I mean it's even a meme on imgur, the whole D&D "I want to punch the ogre" "ok, he is fast, roll for accuracy". It's a very old thing. Does it need to go? I mean, is it really gating anyone? Gear does that on its own.

Parry? Well you probably have us there. The only job that has any mechanical benefit from it is dark knight and slight at that (as far as how much you need for you to notice a difference for the skill "low blow"). It's just a very minor damage mitigation boost. All stats can't be winners, eh? I'd agree something else would be nice, but as you pointed out, there is some lacking of usefulness of secondary stats.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The Novice Hall begs to differ and even encourages Healer dps. How could that be a luxury if the game is telling you it's important.

Did I do the same Novice Hall missions as you did? The Novice hall only suggests you add some damage when everyone is full to speed things up. It is a bonus not a must have. This falls exactly into the "luxury, not a requirement" (prefer the phrase "Nice, not Necessary") mentality. Now if you needed to DpS in order to clear the Healer training you might have an argument.

[Erys]

how removing accuracy as a stat can work:

characters ilevel at the content's minimum ilevel = 80% chance to hit
characters ilevel at the ilevel of the gears from the content = 90% chance to hit
characters ilevel +30 ilevel over the ilevel of the gears from the content = 100% chance to hit

And no one cleared Savage until 7.536
Being +10 levels over content is considered overgearing it, imo. Else you'd have to bump bosses hp to ridiculous levels of boredom. 2 days later you are still hitting the fucker and they won't die, but wait... you are the min ilevel, you fail 20% of the time.
Yeah, sounds fun in every aspect. Maybe we could get higher stats for everything, but the numbers would go up aswell, making it more difficult to manage. We'd probably end up with 3k auto attacks and your best hitter doing 40k, sound like nice and manageable numbers to calculate around.

Accuracy has been around since D&D, get over it. It's necessary. Guaranteed hits and wins are for the weak willed. You just have to try a bit.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Did I do the same Novice Hall missions as you did? The Novice hall only suggests you add some damage when everyone is full to speed things up. It is a bonus not a must have. This falls exactly into the "luxury, not a requirement" (prefer the phrase "Nice, not Necessary") mentality. Now if you needed to DpS in order to clear the Healer training you might have an argument.

Depends did you read the same toolkit as I did? Because I'm pretty sure all healer classes have battleskills and I'm pretty sure you need to use those skills to clear the job quests. A healer not using battle based skills is a player not playing the class to its full potential. Which is why they tell you to weave in DPS skills. A healer just healing is the equivalent of a tank just using flash, overpower and unleash and nothing else because that's all a tank technically needs to do.

Since you main PLD you SHOULD know that your combos are not a luxury and a requirement and you must use them otherwise you'll lose aggro left and right just by flashing and likely get kicked out of instances. If they didn't want healers to DPS they wouldn't have made Cleric Stance, they wouldn't have given SCH access to SMN DoTs and they wouldn't have given AST DPS skills either. Healer DPS is a requirement whether or not you or any other healer wants to agree with it.

[AngelicSence]

I doubt they would remove it. I can't really comment on Parry, but if they made parry to a point where it's actually useful, then it no longer be 2ndly stat, but something that every tankers will use (requirement).

Now, I have to agree that Accuracy is annoying stat (even japanese players hate it, a lot).. Currently, healers who desire to DPS are required to use accuracy material in order to hit. That's not how 2ndly should work. It's only stressful. But It doesn't need to be removed, just changed. Instead of a miss = zero damage. It should be, accuracy check fail = 50% less damage. That would make accuracy material desireable, but not something that forced to use. Every DPS job should have high accuracy, but none DPS primal should at least have very small accuracy attached. So it helps them keep up with new content.

[Morzy]

No thanks. Without accuracy it would be too easy. Besides if not for accuracy id probably have more skill speed right now...

As for the extra stats you proposed.. again those just look too op.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Depends did you read the same toolkit as I did? Because I'm pretty sure all healer classes have battleskills and I'm pretty sure you need to use those skills to clear the job quests.

Please I do not want to get into this argument again.

Please read the Novice Hall quote:

When you have healed all there is to heal, there maybe time to weave in some offensive magics.

To parse this simply: One you have finished healing, you may be able to add some damage before you need to heal again. Is is not saying that a healer must weave in offensive magics, but telling them that they maybe able to weave in some.

A healer not using battle based skills is a player not playing the class to its full potential.

"Full Potential" and "Good Enough" are very different skill levels. A healer can complete all non-raid/EX primal party content by by being "good enough" at just healing.

Which is why they tell you to weave in DPS skills. A healer just healing is the equivalent of a tank just using flash, overpower and unleash and nothing else because that's all a tank technically needs to do.

Just Flashing/Overpowering/Unleashing won't allow a tank to hold against DpS using their single target rotations on a single target, and rotating just the single target enmity combo won't allow a tank to hold a group against AoE spam. Either of these is being not "good enough."

A Healer who just heals is closer to a Tank who never stance dances out of Tank stance to increase damage. Damage is lower than their "Full Potential" but it is enough to clear party content. Tanks who stance dance and Healers who weave in dps abilities are doing more than they need to in order to clear content.

Since you main PLD you SHOULD know that your combos are not a luxury and a requirement and you must use them otherwise you'll lose aggro left and right just by flashing and likely get kicked out of instances.

They are not a luxury because I would be failing to successfully do the job of holding all mobs. As long as I hold all the mobs and the Healer keeps me (and everyone else) from dying we are doing our jobs. It may not be to our "Full Potential" but we are doing our jobs.

If they didn't want healers to DPS they wouldn't have made Cleric Stance, they wouldn't have given SCH access to SMN DoTs and they wouldn't have given AST DPS skills either.

Cleric Stance and DpS skills are there to allow healers to complete Solo content without being forced to party to do any content like they are in some MMOs.

Healer DPS is a requirement whether or not you or any other healer wants to agree with it.

The Devs have stated that Healer DpS is not factored into party DpS requirements needed to clear content. That does not change that Healer DpS is Nice to have, but it does mean that it is not Necessary.

[Rowyne]

I once played a game with no accuracy requirement. Once I realized I had no chance to miss regardless of what I did, the gameinstantly lost all sense of challenge and threat, and was shortly sold for a pittance. Getting rid of accuracy would do nothing good, except rid the game of whatever challenges it has.

I agree that accuracy adds another layer of complexity. It forces players to make intelligent choices about their gear instead of choosing the strongest stats with impunity. It's like if healers chose gear with no piety but, instead, went with all spell speed, crit, or determination. Just like not having enough accuracy would result in a decreased amount of attacks landing, not enough piety would result in a decreased amount of spells able to be cast. It's a kind of gear balancing that forces all archetypes to make a choice.

Now, healers being expected to meld accuracy on their gear if they want to contribute to DPS... that I have a problem with.

[AngelicSence]

Cleric Stance and DpS skills are there to allow healers to complete Solo content without being forced to party to do any content like they are in some MMOs.

Did you know that developers actually commented that they support healer DPS in dungeons. So before patch 3.0, they added accuracy onto healer raid gear, so that they can hit in difficult contents. AST and Sch spells were designed for solo type. But WHMs are more offensive out of 3 healers. WHM has so many AoE spells and it's not because of solo reason. WHM don't really need assize with 300 damage potency. They are already offensive with holy and stone 3, good enought for leveling. Guess why they have Aero3 and Assize. Do you think with extremely high HP that monsters have in heavenward, ASTs going to solo kill 7 pack of monsters with Gravity? those spells were designed so that they can solo + contribute something while not healing.

[Kurogaea]

1) Accuracy is a measure of how well you place your weapon when striking something, if you are accurate enough you hit. So...Accuracy should affect Parry.

Actually accuracy is rather stupid. You target monsters and you hit the button to attack at point blank. There is no reason to miss a punch yet i miss it anyway. Not to mention casters. If I cast holy on 4 enemies surrounding me, how the hell do 2 of them dodge it while hitting me, not trying to avoid it in anyway?

SkillSpeed and SpellSpeed being separate stats is a bit nonsensical to me, I will agree since they both measure speed and you never have both stacked, so DoW always stack SkillSpeed and DoM always stack Spell Speed. Would be better to simply have Speed which works for both, and doesn't need two types of materia.

Makes perfect sense actually. As spell casting goes, players use speech to cast spells (hence silence stops us from spell casting). So if my player speaks faster, spell cast is increased. Skill Speed is like the equivalent of flexibility. The player only moves faster since their more agile that way, specially rogues/ninjas. If they just added speed then my pugilist (without the job stone), they could cast cures like rapid fire and that'd be pretty broken if misused, specially with the materia for our new gear.