Are there more tanks playing now?

[Reynhart]

Some people act like the term "strength tank" is a synonym for "bad tank."

And some think the same of VIT tanks
But in the end, it doesn't change how you play your tank...

The tank needs to know what they need to do to survive large incoming damage with a low health pool, and when to do it.

Ok, then, tell me what a STR tank have to do more than a VIT tank ?

[Adire]

And some think the same of VIT tanks
But in the end, it doesn't change how you play your tank...

Ok, then, tell me what a STR tank have to do more than a VIT tank ?

Manage cooldowns more carefully?

Less HP = less cushion for cooldown usage mistakes.

STR tanks also had to stance dance more efficiently to maximize their DPS, since prior to this change, VIT tanks did negligibly more damage with stance dancing vs STR tanks and they were better off just tanking and letting the healer dps more.

It's common sense really. A STR tank maximizing their DPS AND attempting to tank heavy damage had to balance both, while someone only concerned with tanking only had to focus on one.

[Reynhart]

Manage cooldowns more carefully?

That's not an answer.
For example, let's say you tank A1S, what do you really do differently when you wear STR instead of VIT ?

STR tanks also had to stance dance more efficiently to maximize their DPS, since prior to this change, VIT tanks did negligibly more damage with stance dancing vs STR tanks and they were better off just tanking and letting the healer dps more.

Again, no. Your DPS number is just higher, but you play the job the same. Wether you wear STR or VIT, you have to know the flow to determine when you can allow not having your tank stance.

Saying VIT tanks don't play the job don't maximize their DPS is as bad a misconception as saying STR tanks don't tank properly.

[Deceptus]

That's not an answer.
For example, let's say you tank A1S, what do you really do differently when you wear STR instead of VIT ?

That is absolutely the right answer. A tank with lower hit points has to use their CD's much more effectively and smarter than a tank that has a higher hp total. Both specs using the proper CD, Taking the hit that puts you at 1k hp and dying to the next auto attack is worse than having a 5K buffer after the big hit. A STR tank might have to pop an extra CD is Conva or Thrill of Battle that they might need to save for the next tank buster.

[MagiusNecros]

I was under the impression some Tanks went Str for the deeps or skilled players were doing it and people bandwagoned, liked being challenged to the point they only just wanted enough HP just to get through mechanics/tankbusters and to achieve faster clear times as well as decrease the amount of healing required from outside sources and in a way from the Tank perspective you by virtue heal more with self heals like Soul Eater and Equilibrium by having less HP.

Now though all Tanks do less damage, are expected to sit in Tank stance and let everyone else do all the work while they soak hits which can be pretty boring. In effect both Warrior and Dark Knight were nerfed but PLD is pretty much "Well I can't miss what I never really had".

[Reynhart]

That is absolutely the right answer. A tank with lower hit points has to use their CD's much more effectively and smarter than a tank that has a higher hp total. Both specs using the proper CD, Taking the hit that puts you at 1k hp and dying to the next auto attack is worse than having a 5K buffer after the big hit.

Still no. Having more HP doesn't mean you can afford to take a hit without proper mitigation. It's not because I have more HP that I won't use Rampart some time before Hypercompressed Plasma to keep my HP higher before and mitigate the following attacks too.
What is true, is that a VIT tank have more rooms for errors, but it's still errors.

A STR tank might have to pop an extra CD is Conva or Thrill of Battle that they might need to save for the next tank buster.

So, you have a real example where the rotation is different depending on what you wear ?

[Adire]

....

Umm....it is an answer actually, as Deceptus just explained differently to you.

Before this change, VIT tanks DIDN'T maximize their dps. How can you say they did when they specced for VIT, not STR, in the first place? They could have perhaps still stance danced, but the DPS gain from it would be extremely neglible, especially when you realize that a tank could have specced STR and done the same exact thing. It would be so minor that just staying in tank stance and letting the healers get some extra dps in would be a superior group choice.

A STR tank was more vulnerable without proper, tight cooldown usage than a VIT tank....that was just a fact, I don't know how to say it any differently.

You asked what a STR tank HAS to do more than a VIT tank, and that's your answer. You may not consider it an answer since it doesn't agree with what you believe, but it still is a very appropriate answer.

Also, saying a VIT tank doesn't maximize their dps is actually correct, while saying a STR tank doesn't tank properly is not.

A STR tank properly using cooldowns could survive, and therefore tank properly. A VIT tank would not have been maximizing their dps, as speccing for VIT would already make that impossible. A STR tank can tank and maximize their dps at the same time, while a VIT tank cripples their dps with their stat choice but can also tank.

[Reynhart]

Umm....it is an answer actually, as Deceptus just explained differently to you.

And neither of you could provide a real example. That's why I say it's not an answer.

Before this change, VIT tanks DIDN'T maximize their dps. How can you say they did when they specced for VIT, not STR, in the first place?

Because maxing one's DPS is more a matter of how you play than what you wear. And you gain exactly the same rate of damage, again, wether you wear VIT or STR. Missing between 20% and 30% DPS is huge, whatever your number is in the first place.

A STR tank was more vulnerable without proper, tight cooldown usage than a VIT tank....that was just a fact, I don't know how to say it any differently.

Again, since fights are pretty much scripted from start to finish, cooldowns rotation is already determined. So, once again, give me a real example where your CD usage would be different.

[Adire]

Ok, then, tell me what a STR tank have to do more than a VIT tank ?

I answered this question several times already, but I'll do so one more time for you at the bottom of this post.

Because maxing one's DPS is more a matter of how you play than what you wear. And you gain exactly the same rate of damage, again, wether you wear VIT or STR. Missing between 20% and 30% DPS is huge, whatever your number is in the first place.

Is that so? So you're essentially saying that a STR tank and a VIT tank doing the same thing wouldn't have much of a difference in DPS prior to this change? That....says a lot about your understanding of things O.o


And I've already answered your original question several times. You asked:

Ok, then, tell me what a STR tank have to do more than a VIT tank ?

Here's my answer once again: A STR tank has to be more careful with CD usage since errors are much more punishing than for a VIT tank. A STR tank has to be more careful with stance dancing. A STR tank drops huge numbers or risks dying more if they mess up stance dancing or cooldown usage because of how much of an influence STR had over VIT on damage and because lower HP leaves less room for damage. If a VIT tank messes up, their damage loss is negligible since their outgoing damage is already extremely low due to speccing VIT anyways, and their survival chances are higher. They can afford to be more loose with their DPS and their cooldowns, because their DPS is already extremely low and not contributing much, especially compared to what a STR tank would be contributing, and because they have higher health to reduce to impact of error.

I never said their optimal rotations are different, so don't try to cop out or manipulate readers into thinking I'm saying something I'm not. Our discussion started about whether STR tanking is easier or more difficult than VIT tanking due to cooldown usage importance for both, and I have given you your answer for that. Don't change the subject.

He asked what STR tanks have to do that VIT tanks don't have to do in reference to me saying to someone that cooldown usage for STR tanks is more important than it is for VIT tanks, and that's the question I debated and answered.

[Reynhart]

I answered this question several times already, but I'll do so one more time for you at the bottom of this post.

No, you still not. You gave a "theory". You still didn't provide a real example, a proof, as STR tank do play differently.
I've looked at a lot of guides for hard content, and not a single time did I see "If you wear VIT, do this, if you wear STR, do that".

Is that so? So you're essentially saying that a STR tank and a VIT tank doing the same thing wouldn't have much of a difference in DPS prior to this change? That....says a lot about your understanding of things O.o

No, I'm saying that if proper rotation and proper stance dancing can increase your DPS by 30%, it will give 30%, whatever you wear. Of course, the actual numbers will be different, but so would they if you have a gap in weapon and armor.
When judging a rotation, we judge how much you do in regards to your maximum output for your gear.