Are there more tanks playing now?

[Synestra]

...

So bacially you want to do same numbers as DPS jobs but now that you cant outparse them tanking suddenly became boring? I really cannot graps this mentality specially now that tank skillcap went trought the roof, STR tanking was easymode because you could sit in DPS stance 24/7 after initial pull while forgetting enmity even existed.

[Adire]

So bacially you want to do same numbers as DPS jobs but now that you cant outparse them tanking suddenly became boring? I really cannot graps this mentality specially now that tank skillcap went trought the roof, STR tanking was easymode because you could sit in DPS stance 24/7 after initial pull while forgetting enmity even existed.

When will people learn....

Before 3.2, tanks could only come close to outparsing bad dps. Tanks could only straight up outparse dirt awful dps.

And by the way, no, STR tanking was not easy mode. STR tanking made popping CDs at critical moments and balancing their cooldowns that much more important. STR tanking was not "just dps stance and go crazy", as you seem to believe.

[Reynhart]

STR tanking made popping CDs at critical moments and balancing their cooldowns that much more important.

Last time I checked, the cooldown rotation against spike damage doesn't care that you wear VIT or STR, since it's based of the boss' pattern.

[Adire]

Last time I checked, the cooldown rotation against spike damage doesn't care that you wear VIT or STR, since it's based of the boss' pattern.

I know that.

Doesn't change the fact that lower hp means you're on a tighter HP budget though.

[Reynhart]

Doesn't change the fact that lower hp means you're on a tighter HP budget though.

Yes, but what you need to realize is that this HP budget is not for you to manage...but for your healer.

Surviving as a STR tank doesn't mean that you're a "good" tank, but that you have a good healer that can keep you alive with a lower safety net.

[Adire]

Yes, but what you need to realize is that this HP budget is not for you to manage...but for your healer.

Surviving as a STR tank doesn't mean that you're a "good" tank, but that you have a good healer that can keep you alive with a lower safety net.

False.

It's for both to manage. The tank needs to know what they need to do to survive large incoming damage with a low health pool, and when to do it. The healer needs to be ready to heal them back up asap.

If the STR tank can't pop cooldowns correctly, the best healer in the world won't be able to save them if they get taken down before a heal can be thrown out, or if they get 1 shotted. Especially with the slight lag involved with instant heals.

[Seku]

Doesn't change the fact that lower hp means you're on a tighter HP budget though.

And this doesn't change the fact that VIT tanks prior to 3.2 had to use their cool downs at the same times as STR tanks. Which is what Reyn is arguing, where in any content would a STR Tank need to use their defensive cool downs differently than a VIT tank? Where would a Paladin need to use Rampart as a VIT tank and then where would they need to use it as a STR tank?

Because if there is no difference, and they used them at the same time, then that "extra budget" of HP you shaved off in exchange for DPS was for the healer, as that would have given them some extra time before you dropped dead on the ground. As no amount of "skill" (timing of your cool downs) is going to save you if your healer is slow on bringing your HP back up.

Now though all Tanks do less damage, are expected to sit in Tank stance and let everyone else do all the work while they soak hits which can be pretty boring. In effect both Warrior and Dark Knight were nerfed but PLD is pretty much "Well I can't miss what I never really had".

Depends on the content and how hard the boss is hitting. Nothing is stopping any tank from maxing out their dps. If anything a lot of people are sore because we're not pushing out the same amount of damage anymore, which really doesn't make a difference currently since DPS checks have been considerably lowered to compensate for our lack of damage. -- The only real thing we're missing is the illusion of choice.

[Adire]

And this doesn't change the fact that VIT tanks prior to 3.2 had to use their cool downs at the same times as STR tanks. Which is what Reyn is arguing, where in any content would a STR Tank need to use their defensive cool downs differently than a VIT tank? Where would a Paladin need to use Rampart as a VIT tank and then where would they need to use it as a STR tank?

Once again, there's no need for him to argue that. I already said I agree with that, the optimal rotation is identical for both.

Look at his original quote in the context it was in though. That's not what he was originally saying, he only brought up rotations afterwards.

Is that for me ?

I honestly don't know who that's for....since no one at all is saying VIT tanks should neglect their cooldowns.

[Reynhart]

I already said I agree with that, the optimal rotation is identical for both.

That's exactly what I don't understand.
You agree that the optimal rotation is the same for both types of tanks, but you're also saying that STR tanks need to use them more carefully.
How can both of those things be true at the same time, since "more carefully" automatically means "not in the same way" ?

That's why I'd like a real example to show this. I'm not saying that it's wrong, I'm just saying that I don't see where is the difference...except if you take a tank that neglect its cooldown because he have much more HP, a thing that neither of us advocate for

[Ragology]

Last time I checked, the cooldown rotation against spike damage doesn't care that you wear VIT or STR, since it's based of the boss' pattern.

I think that part was being emphasized because of the popular belief that STR tanks are so tunnel visioned that they don't bother with defensive cooldowns.

Some people act like the term "strength tank" is a synonym for "bad tank."