Please Remove the Materia Melding Crafter Restriction

[Duelle]

You keep wanting a counter-argument? Fine, here's one. For crafters that have been on this game for a loooong time (personally, since 1.0 beta), arguments like yours (it's just a small change guys, what's the big deal?) have utterly crippled crafting. Here's a timeline showing how.

1.0: The absolute, best quality gear crafters could make was actually on par with what was BiS at the time (at least for a while). Crafted gear was extremely relevant, but not required; you could choose what 'path' you wanted, gear wise, each with benefits and downsides. Later on in 1.0's lifespan, the dev team introduced a really, REALLY cool concept; Hamlet Defense. This particular instance incorporated not only the battle classes, but DoL and DoH as well in a battle! The DoH had to produce quality equipment for the npcs that helped the players defend the outpost; the more and better quality provided, the better the npcs would fare. However, the beastmen knew this and thus DoH had to be defended. It was an amazing idea! But....but it had crafters....in a battle! How dare those filthy crafters move from their crafting corner and sully the battle classes! 2.0 remedied this, and Hamlet Defense died.

Hamlet defense was a poor system because of the reward structure. Did you forget that unless you were in the top (...I want to say) 10 contributors, you didn't get anything?

A 4/8-man instance or scenario fight where crafters joining on their own (as in separate from the party queuing up for the fight) would make things easier/smoother would work. Just not with the reward structure of Hamlet Defense. Frankly, the reward structure killed it for me and I was happy to see that iteration of Hamlet Defense die.

2.0: So, remember how top-tier crafted gear was equal to BiS gear in 1.0? Well that made crafters seem too relevant, so we'll drop them down 10 levels below BiS (15 for weapons, if I remember correctly). I mean, it's only 10 ilevels right, what's the big deal? And then the dev team revealed their true intentions for crafters; the glamour system! Seemed awesome, and is awesome at times....but it foreshadowed what would happen. Still, 10 ilvls under BiS was still relevant, if not ideal, so crafters trudged on. Over the course of 2.0, SE set a precedent; if you wanted to be a relevant crafter at all, you'll have to devote all your time, soul, and gil to it (crafting 'relics', anyone?), to make gear that would still be sub-optimal. Crafters weathered through it.

The problem here was really the structure of gear acquisition. It would've been one thing to have crafters be part of the entry-level process for first, second and third coil.

For example (I'm throwing numbers here because I honestly don't remember), if first coil was tuned around a raid decked out in ilvl80 gear at the start, the crafted gear should be ilvl80 to go along with dungeon/trial rewards of that same ilvl, with maybe one or two pieces itemized in such a way to meet acc caps or maybe with extra crit or something to give a slight edge while still being quickly replaced by raid drops.

I don't think any of us counted on tomestone gear fully replacing crafted gear AND becoming the mainstay of progression. Relics also messed things up.

You mention dedicating yourself fully to crafting, and you're right. This was most likely done because crafting in this game is a) its own set of classes with EXP and levels and everything and b) designed as a minigame instead of something you click and let happen. Those factors add yet another layer to this mess because unlike other MMOs that simply add new recipes, put maybe one or 2 ingredients in raids or on cooldown timers and just not change anything else about crafting, the devs in FFXIV have to provide gear and things with more difficulty because they know you and others would complain if 1-star difficulty had been the ceiling for crafts in ARR.

Combine all that with one of the key parts of the problem -which for some reason no one likes to address-, the fact one person can level every craft, and you have a recipe for disaster. Player dynamics would have played out differently, not to mention that SE wouldn't have to scramble so much to make crafters relevant if they had limited the number of crafts a player can level.

3.0: The scene for crafters gets worse. Right from the start, the best gear crafters could make was not 10, not 15, but 20 levels below BiS. 20. Just another small change right, it's only 5 ilvls difference from last time! Then a little later, SE introduced scrips. Now, on top of crafted gear being laughably below BiS, it was also heavily gated. Then 3.1 hits, and....best crafted gear is now 25 ilvls below BiS. Once again, it's only a little change right? It's only 5 ilvls! Oh, and did I mention that SE has already fully implemented their future plans for crafting on one of the classes? Remember Blacksmiths? Remember the last time Blacksmith had any relevant gear they could make? I do, it was approximately a year ago, with Wootz weapons. A year. Blacksmith is now officially a glamour class; it should be GLM, not BSM.

Read the above. Also, the inclusion of scripts didn't really do much aside from sticking to that whole idea of crafting being its own endgame. Which doesn't really amount to much in the end.

So no, Cosmic, "because it's inconvenient" is NOT reason enough. It's another 'just a small change, what can it hurt!' Guess what? Enough small changes make for MASSIVE changes over time. That is why we are so against this. Crafters are slowly, but surely being rendered irrelevant by comments like yours.

Actually, is reason enough. Your issues have nothing to do with materia melding and more with where crafting stands in the grand scheme of gear acquisition and progression, along with the approach SE has taken to crafts. If anything, you and every crafter that is wanting to be relevant should be clamoring for SE to fix the system in place. I can even give you a basic idea of what could work without pissing the battle classes off too much:

1) Dungeon gear and crafting gear should be equal ilvl, with tomestone gear acting as filler but not being able to completely replace the other two.
2) Materials shouldn't be stupidly rare but can be timed or delayed if extremely valuable.
3) Tomestone, dungeon and crafted gear combined should prepare someone for raid entry (too bad we don't have an -in-between tier like WoW does with heroic dungeons), where the gear gets replaced as you get the raid on farm.
4) Upon the arrival of a new patch, give crafters catch-up gear while allowing new dungeon drops and tomestone gear to help prepare players for the next raid, and so the cycle repeats.

The reason I wouldn't want ingredients to be rare is because this way crafters aren't forced to super inflate prices, which in turn screws over battle classes. As someone of the latter, I've yet to see myself with more than 3 million gil, and would be adverse to paying crazy amounts of gil for crafted gear. At least in WoW I could spam dailies and after a while get enough (how I bought my Titansteel Destroyer back in WotLK), but we don't have even that here.

[Andrea]

I'll be honest as a Omnicrafter I really do not care if others can go to an NPC to meld or not.

What I do care about is what those without crafters leveled have to do to use said NPC.

While melding is a small part of leveling crafters I still feel that it shouldn't be free to those who wish to either not level crafts or not interact with crafters.

[CosmicKirby]

Actually, is reason enough. Your issues have nothing to do with materia melding and more with where crafting stands in the grand scheme of gear acquisition and progression, along with the approach SE has taken to crafts. If anything, you and every crafter that is wanting to be relevant should be clamoring for SE to fix the system in place. I can even give you a basic idea of what could work without pissing the battle classes off too much:

I was away for most of the day, and was going to respond once I got to my computer, but I feel that this is a more than sufficient response. Aarik's post is more reflective of an impassioned diversion you'd hear from a politician than any actual argument for the defense of the mechanic itself.
The argument that is there, is one for making crafters feel 'relevant'. I would agree that this can and should be done in a much better way.
I most thoroughly disagree with the idea that Materia Melding is keeping crafters relevant as is, is a good way to give them relevance, and that it is a compelling enough mechanic to justify its own existing set of rules and restrictions.

[Suirieko]

crafting in this game is the most boring thing ever....hell even FFXI was more fun , breaking crystals and losing mats.....sucked but if i leveled woodworking i didnt need to level weaver .....plus with arrowheads and buying wood from npc i could use it to create my own arrows for days.... 33 arrows every arrowhead...(66 or 99 if HQ or HQ2)

I hated crafting in FFXI. don't like the fact that leveling crafts in FFXI is strictly RNg, and it gets worse as you get higher.

[Zumi]

I have all my crafts leveled but honestly it is becoming a huge problem with the game. Since all tome and raid gear has materia slots a lot of people I would say around 9/10 are leaving them all empty. Honestly in other games where they have a similar system it never required a craft to slot gems. SE really does need to put in an npc that does materia melding just like they put in a npc that does repairs. I believe this would reduce the number of people who are not using materia.

[Mycow8me]

Just let them have their way, crafting has been on a downward spiral since 2.0... HW brought it back for a short time but then it continued the spiral. Specializations killed it for some people. Absurd craftsmanship and control requirements kills new crafting content for most of the ones that still try. By the time they are able, the gear they wanted to craft and use is probably no longer relevant. Hardcore raiders dont like strong crafting equipment. Casuals dont like crafting period and just want entitlements, even raiders are this way sometimes.
Meanwhile midcores, people just playing the game without complaining, and people who like crafting are getting the short end of the stick or just hoping they can keep enjoying it tomorrow.
TL-DR crafting is mostly already useless cause of the non crafting community so making it a bit more usless isnt that big a deal at this point.

[Viuiji]

I personally levelled all my crafters for 3 reasons; to craft, to meld my own gear and to repair on the fly.

Honestly, if an npc could offer melding, it's no skin off my nose at all! Such a minor part of crafting unless you're one who likes to sell fully melded gear for a huge amount on the mb.

Currently I spend time when I can with a PF up offering free (no tip required) melds to those who need it, as not everyone knows someone who can meld or feels comfortable just shouting for help.

[Zojha]

SE really does need to put in an npc that does materia melding just like they put in a npc that does repairs. I believe this would reduce the number of people who are not using materia.

If you want everyone to use the materia slots, two changes are needed:
- Grade IV materia for esoteric tomes
- NPC that melds

Otherwise, there will always be people who don't bother melding because they have to go out of their way, especially now for interim gear (Materia doesn't carry over when things get upgraded, so Machi matter is stockpiled).

[Synestra]

Correct my understanding if I'm mistaken, but, if a given "effort" feels in almost no way satisfying but merely necessary or otherwise punitive, isn't the term "chore" equally applicable?

Im just curious but how can money printing be chore? i earned 30mil when i leveled all crafts from 50 to 60, if anything it was super enjoyable to take 1mil+ everyday from retainers.

[RhaegarFFXIFenrir]

This is sort of off topic....but I see some fairly long posts in here. How do I overcome the 1000 character limit? This limit has been giving me fits when trying to craft thoughtful replies to what people are saying.