Tanks are still taking STR accessories.

[JackFross]

To reiterate, we aren't discussing a vitality versus strength meta any longer because this was broken making it a nonviable construct. DPS for tanks is out completely, so stop imagining this is about DPS increase through any means. There's only one secondary stat (after reaching accuracy cap) and that benefits tanks any longer and it is Critical Hit Rate.

Neither of these above statements are true though, so I argue that the critical hit rate from the slaying accessories outweighss the 2000 missing HP.

Right, it's basically a non-issue, since whichever way you move the stats, your outgoing dps is gonna be essentially the same. That's super accurate, to be honest. Arguing tank dps "doesn't matter anymore" is ignorant though, so can we stop that? You're talking about min-maxing literally 2% crit rate difference for a skill you have a base 25% crit rate for, and you're trying to say in the same breath that min-maxing dps (in actually measurable/visible chunks) by stance dancing is pointless, because "tank dps doesn't matter" - so please pick a side. Do these tiny, essentially pointless, differences in secondary stats matter or do they not?

Because saying "Tank dps doesn't matter so why bother trying to maximize it" actively works against your incredibly more insignificant argument.


I already disproved your claim mathematically in another post. So please stop spouting the same bullshit in post after post without any thought for the truth of the matter. Let me break this down for you.

Equilibrium is a 60s cooldown. Let's assume that you use it exactly on cooldown AND get the full heal from it every time with 0% overheal, even when you crit it. (Anyone who has ever played this game knows that this situation has about a 0% chance of happening, because healers exist.)

A5S is a 7-8 minute fight, so you will get 7-8 Equilibrium casts. Assuming you say "lol tank dps doesn't matter" so you use Internal Release on cooldown to buff Equilibrium since that's the only skill you have where crits matter because your dps doesn't matter anymore, you have a 25% critical hit rate. Out of 7-8 casts, you will crit (on average) two of them. If you buff your crit from 770 to 850 like you suggest, your crit rate on that increases to 27%. You will NOW crit (on average) two of them. So, uh, congratulations on sacrificing 3000 health for a literally invisible gain in the one area you were doing it to get a gain in.


If this explanation doesn't make you realize how god-damned worthless it is to sacrifice health in order to increase how often you crit with Equilibrium, you're beyond my help and I and everyone else need to just give up trying to convince you. You can keep on being a bad tank who doesn't understand that:

Skill Speed at a certain point will give this Warrior in question 9 gcds in each Berserk (a skill you probably don't use since your dps doesn't matter anymore), which is a massive gain to your overall damage output (sorry, I know your dps doesn't matter anymore, because the difference between a WAR doing 1000 dps and one doing 400 dps isn't worth mentioning).
Determination not only boosts every offensive skill that you use, but it ALSO boosts every self-heal that the Warrior has access to (aside from Thrill of Battle, which I'll get into in a bit), since they're all directly related to how much damage you can do.

Thrill of Battle heals you by a flat 20%. Cutting out 3000 health cuts that health restoration (and addition) by 600. Please note that this health buffer is exactly the same amount of mitigation as Rampart, except... it scales with how much health you have. More health = more mitigation, since it creates a pillow that the hits have to cut down before they actually hurt you.


The marginal gain afforded by 80 Crit is flat out beaten by having 3000 more health and stacking a more balanced spread of secondaries alongside more Attack Power. You are gimping every single Equilibrium in order to invisibly increase the chance for your Equilibrium to crit. Please stop arguing that this is a proper course of action, because you are wrong and I am tired of repeating the same arguments as you ignore every single one of them.

[Synestra]

Some of us don't like 4man dungeons taking 20 minutes but if that's your preference.

Well this is easy to fix, do a pre-made roulettes instead = no more bad deeps in your group!

[Deceptus]

Some of us don't like 4man dungeons taking 20 minutes but if that's your preference.

Wow, if a 20 minute run is bad for you you might want to play another game. 20 minutes vs what? 15? 10? The dev's have purposely put in stop point in dungeons for a while now to actively discourage speed running.

[Deceptus]

:|

Healers still have dps skills. Tanks still do damage. There's no penalty for doing damage on either Job. You're still encouraged to do it to clear content early - this was even stated in the Live Letters. Those who want to push the new raid tier week 1 will do so by getting crafted gear and leaning on tank and healer dps, which they did, and continue to do.

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

[Launched]

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

If healers were only meant to be able to do the minimum DPS to clear solo content, they'd just have Stone, Malefic and Ruin. Things like Holy (and its stun), Aero III, Assize's damage and Gravity have pretty much no place in solo content, they're clearly designed for group stuff. Healers might not HAVE to DPS to clear content, but they've clearly been given skills meant to help them contribute more.

[JackFross]

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

See, I would have found it hard to argue this pre-3.0. However, if this were the case, some skills would not exist. Stone III, Aero III, Assize's damage half, Broil, Malefic II, Gravity... All of these skills are learned after level 50 and add literally nothing to the role of the Healer outside of affording them more damage output. If healers were intended to be turrets who stand there with their thumb up their ass while the party's at full health, they wouldn't have learned these new skills in the new leveling content.

And I'm assuming by "leveling" you mean "dungeons while leveling up." If that's what you mean, why would this suddenly change when you hit 60 and do full-party content...? Especially when you have two healers doing the job one competent healer can do by themself?

[Culfinrandir]

I agree with Jack Fross. I levelled my WHM from 50 to 60 recently & it was very difficult when taking on content in the open world where there's more than one enemy. Unlike SCH there's no fairy to keep you healed & jumping in & out of Cleric Stance to kill the mobs is much harder than I think many people give credit too. Without the new 3.x skills it would be nigh on impossible after mobs reach about level 54, they hit too hard & have too much HP.

[Jim_Berry]

Are you sure they're not still wearing STR accessories because they just haven't had time to get new ones yet?

Oh, there are quite a few tanks still wearing it. They want to see their "Attack Power" increase because wearing "VIT" isn't increasing the actual number in the Attributes screen. Some don't want to meld their fending gear with STR.

[Jim_Berry]

See, I would have found it hard to argue this pre-3.0. However, if this were the case, some skills would not exist. Stone III, Aero III, Assize's damage half, Broil, Malefic II, Gravity... All of these skills are learned after level 50 and add literally nothing to the role of the Healer outside of affording them more damage output. If healers were intended to be turrets who stand there with their thumb up their ass while the party's at full health, they wouldn't have learned these new skills in the new leveling content.

And I'm assuming by "leveling" you mean "dungeons while leveling up." If that's what you mean, why would this suddenly change when you hit 60 and do full-party content...? Especially when you have two healers doing the job one competent healer can do by themself?

But, I stand there to be a turret with my thumb up my ass while the party's at full health. Around early 2014, I was scarred from the community because I couldn't manage dps and healing (I'd get carried away and someone dies), so I only focus on being a fulltime healer when I'm on WHM. I just refuse to do it today.

[Jim_Berry]

Wow, if a 20 minute run is bad for you you might want to play another game. 20 minutes vs what? 15? 10? The dev's have purposely put in stop point in dungeons for a while now to actively discourage speed running.

Not only that, but speeding don't always give people the chance to learn hate management, rotations, and other things on their class. Then they're labeled bad.