Tanks are still taking STR accessories.

[JackFross]

:|

No, not broken. Players (customers!) want to play that way AND they can play that way effectively proves that it is not broken.

I really don't know how to convince you that you're wrong. A meta is broken when things are not being done according to the way the developers want them to be done. This is true across all games and all genres. If a character in a fighting game is discovered to be broken due to a skill or mechanic they employ, they're balanced out either by the devs or players (character/skill bans). Same applies here. The difference between that and FFXIV is players are going to exploit broken elements because it's a cooperative game, not competetive. There's no one (besides you, apparently) who disagrees with this statement:

Warrior pre-3.2 was incredibly broken. 3.2 barely addressed its broken nature, but DID bring it down to the realm of the mortals... sort of.

This is going to sound like a troll now, but no, sorry.

DPS is the only damage they see, please review live letters.

Tank damage is not factored in. Healers should not be DPSing.

These are not tiers, these are roles. They are something they force upon it.

Healers still have dps skills. Tanks still do damage. There's no penalty for doing damage on either Job. You're still encouraged to do it to clear content early - this was even stated in the Live Letters. Those who want to push the new raid tier week 1 will do so by getting crafted gear and leaning on tank and healer dps, which they did, and continue to do.

It's not forced on you. You have the absolute shittiest outlook on this game that I have ever encountered. Why do you still play it?

In this thread, sure; because this one deals with the strength accessories and their role.

This thread is talking about the exact thing that you're the only one arguing for. The fact that no one is supporting you in a thread discussing the "problem" you see means you're wrong, according to the community. You definitely do not speak for everyone when you're a lone voice among hundreds.

Initial comments have, and always were, that the primary stats for tanks on the accessories mean nothing in 3.2, it is all about the secondary stats and the benefits you get from those. 2400 to 3200 extra hit points will net you nothing in the long run.

Except that 2400 to 3200 health could mean the difference between a wipe and a clear. The new raid tier (even in Normal) is incredibly tight on tank and healer checks. One mis-handled mechanic results in a dead tank, especially when they're rocking less buffer health. I dunno about you, but when I pug Alexander Normal, my goal is to kill the fight, not min-max pointless secondaries that make no meaningful change to any of my utility skills.

And even if you flip-flop to the dps argument, gaining <1% dps over the course of a fight at the cost of >10% of your maximum health is absolutely idiotic, and you should stop doing it.

Are you having trouble with TP? Equilibrium in a normal tanking role is for heal backs, again since they have made it so tank damage doesn't count there isn't a point to stay in Deliverance or swap to Deliverance except during a pause phase to perhaps beat up an add. If you're having trouble with TP then you're doing something wrong with your Wrath.

I don't play Warrior. I play Dark Knight and Paladin. On Paladin, my TP runs dry real quick in A7N, for example, especially when my OT WAR thinks his dps (which is generally lower than mine with him in Deliverance and me in Shield Oath) matters just so much so I should just hunker down through Uplander Doom. Losing those MP GCDs for stance swaps is kind of detrimental to my overall TP management.

Either way, you should rarely be using Equilibrium for self-heals. Healers will keep you up most of the time. and Equilibrium gives you an extra stack, which aids in your ability to get 3 Fell Cleaves during your Berserks - something every single Warrior, main-tank or off-tank, should be doing.

ff junk

This isn't a discussion of FF roles, but pretty much all of those classifications have nothing to do with the point you made. Every single Job in each of those games performs one primary function. Cecil's Paladin is not FFXIV's Paladin. It's a drastically different Job that fills a drastically different Role, but it still fills exactly that one Role and nothing else, outside of the remake. That same comment can be applied to every single "counter-argument" you tried to bring to the table. Also, you should check out this link, re:FF12.

Yup, and by the time you get to the point where your curve is plateauing (not in this expansion) your damage/healing is making up the difference.

I like how this argument is completely irrelevant to the point that I was making in that quote! Thanks for proving that you can't follow a discussion.
I was simply proving that Critical Hit Rate has diminishing returns in FFXIV. I was not saying that it's bad or whatever you're trying to imply I was saying in your comment here.
So, thank you for entirely missing the point and proving that I'm wasting my time talking to you.

[HoodRat]

Either way, you should rarely be using Equilibrium for self-heals. Healers will keep you up most of the time, and Equilibrium gives you an extra stack, which aids in your ability to get 3 Fell Cleaves during your Berserks - something every single Warrior, main-tank or off-tank, should be doing.

Actually, equilibrium doesn't increase wrath/abandon stacks. Unless they changed that in 3.2. Which, given how much I pay attention, may well have happened. But still, giving up hp to increase crit rating for those equilibrium crits is a little dumb.

Apparently Bikkusu is unaware that SE isn't making intense dps checks right now and that they have tuned all pre-existing content to account for tank dps being nerfed. Judging by that and the fact that Bikkusu has a slight, a very very slight, dps increase from using those slaying accessories with crit and yet still claims that tank dps doesn't matter, she clearly isn't playing warrior efficiently.

[JackFross]

Actually, equilibrium doesn't increase wrath/abandon stacks.

Oops! As I said, I don't play Warrior, so I was unaware. It's just Raw Intuition that increases it, from the new skills, right! x_x

[Deceptus]

:|

Healers still have dps skills. Tanks still do damage. There's no penalty for doing damage on either Job. You're still encouraged to do it to clear content early - this was even stated in the Live Letters. Those who want to push the new raid tier week 1 will do so by getting crafted gear and leaning on tank and healer dps, which they did, and continue to do.

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

[Launched]

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

If healers were only meant to be able to do the minimum DPS to clear solo content, they'd just have Stone, Malefic and Ruin. Things like Holy (and its stun), Aero III, Assize's damage and Gravity have pretty much no place in solo content, they're clearly designed for group stuff. Healers might not HAVE to DPS to clear content, but they've clearly been given skills meant to help them contribute more.

[JackFross]

Going back a bit but Healers have dps skills because you can't kill mobs in solo content, leveling, with Cure and Physic. It's the same reason Cleric Stance exists.

See, I would have found it hard to argue this pre-3.0. However, if this were the case, some skills would not exist. Stone III, Aero III, Assize's damage half, Broil, Malefic II, Gravity... All of these skills are learned after level 50 and add literally nothing to the role of the Healer outside of affording them more damage output. If healers were intended to be turrets who stand there with their thumb up their ass while the party's at full health, they wouldn't have learned these new skills in the new leveling content.

And I'm assuming by "leveling" you mean "dungeons while leveling up." If that's what you mean, why would this suddenly change when you hit 60 and do full-party content...? Especially when you have two healers doing the job one competent healer can do by themself?

[Culfinrandir]

I agree with Jack Fross. I levelled my WHM from 50 to 60 recently & it was very difficult when taking on content in the open world where there's more than one enemy. Unlike SCH there's no fairy to keep you healed & jumping in & out of Cleric Stance to kill the mobs is much harder than I think many people give credit too. Without the new 3.x skills it would be nigh on impossible after mobs reach about level 54, they hit too hard & have too much HP.

[Jim_Berry]

See, I would have found it hard to argue this pre-3.0. However, if this were the case, some skills would not exist. Stone III, Aero III, Assize's damage half, Broil, Malefic II, Gravity... All of these skills are learned after level 50 and add literally nothing to the role of the Healer outside of affording them more damage output. If healers were intended to be turrets who stand there with their thumb up their ass while the party's at full health, they wouldn't have learned these new skills in the new leveling content.

And I'm assuming by "leveling" you mean "dungeons while leveling up." If that's what you mean, why would this suddenly change when you hit 60 and do full-party content...? Especially when you have two healers doing the job one competent healer can do by themself?

But, I stand there to be a turret with my thumb up my ass while the party's at full health. Around early 2014, I was scarred from the community because I couldn't manage dps and healing (I'd get carried away and someone dies), so I only focus on being a fulltime healer when I'm on WHM. I just refuse to do it today.