id like to see cross class skills removed/changed for next expansion

[Ayuhra]

/shrug I do understand why they introduced the cross-class actions. But I suppose that it is always good to throw your idea out there.. Balancing things is hard though. And while some things may have the potential to be reworked into a unique ability, in the end they would all still do the same. And not to mention that not all people use all 5 of the available abilities as it is..

EDIT: 'Button bloating' mentioned above, I'd understand if you were on a console, not on the PC. Smh

IDK, I am on a PC and button bloat is one of the main reasons I am terrible at this game. I would love to see rotations tightened up and not be so complex.

(Inevitable response: "YOU ARE A BLACKMAGE LOLOLOL" yes, fewest buttons to manage here. We do have slow casts and our entire rotation pivots on having two separate timers active at once so it's still kind of obnoxious)

Doesn't a DRG take a full minute to execute their rotation once, assuming no skillspeed? That is absurd.

Then there is Summoner who cannot macro pet attacks to their rotation too easily and who cannot set certain pet abilities to auto cast and keep others manual which makes their rotation unnecessarily cluttered.

I guess this has little to nothing to do with the complaint about cross-class abilities. On paper I have nothing against those but it would be nice to have them be optional, maybe nice utility things instead of rotational things. Like you do not NEED a Protect as DPS but if you are out and about it's nice to have. However if you are physical DPS you need to have Blood For Blood which means digging fairly deep into Dragoon.

[karateorangutang]

snip

Your point is taken, but I know myself and alot of others that play long rotations actually enjoy that part of it. 1234 rotations are simpler and require less buttons, but the long rotations make for a more dynamic action to the game. Not discounting your point, but I personally think this is what makes the game more fun than others, and seperates someone that likes and who loves the class they play as.

To the OP, I'll agree that the system state is rather inelegant, but it's the current foundation for the entire state of classes and jobs in the game. Adding abilities on lvl up would mess with pre-cap leveling and cause a great amount of skill bloat... for almost no gain. It would be positively frustrating to level to 70 on monk to get invigorate and B4B clones. The entire class system would have to be reworked and that has posibilities for disaster.

[Souleater13]

Honestly I dont understand why this is even necessary.

If you remove cross class skills it would require as much work as creating a new job almost. Because they would have to go in and create job specific versions of provoke for War, DRK and any new tank class that they add.

Also they would have to create a specific version of swiftcast for all healing classes. SMN and any new mage/healing class they add. Ultimately adding in more work in the long run.
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I cant imagine it being that difficult for SE. Example; for drk, add provoke into Plunge, Done. That took a second to think of and there's a good chance SE is already working on these aspects. When the next expansion hits are you to expect 5 more job skills to be added when people are already concerned on bloat? There must needs to be some type of change to job skills and cross skills. I think most people agree to at least that but what changes are needed/desired is what becomes debate.

Added Thought: If Plunge had Provoke built into it from the get go, DRK could of cross classed form lancer instead of gladiator as some exclaimed would of made more sense.

[Dzian]

Removed no. Don't need more skills that do the same thing basically. And giving each caster it's own version of swift cast wouldn't be any different to just cross classing it. However some of the skills should definitely be changed

Surecast is one example that springs to my mind.
I think what surecast should do is prevent interruptions even if you move for the next cast. Would have so much more utility if it did. Where as now if I'm ever worried about interrupts I'll just swift cast the spell instead. Thus sure cast us largely useless.

[Ayuhra]

Your point is taken, but I know myself and alot of others that play long rotations actually enjoy that part of it. 1234 rotations are simpler and require less buttons, but the long rotations make for a more dynamic action to the game. Not discounting your point, but I personally think this is what makes the game more fun than others, and seperates someone that likes and who loves the class they play as.

To the OP, I'll agree that the system state is rather inelegant, but it's the current foundation for the entire state of classes and jobs in the game. Adding abilities on lvl up would mess with pre-cap leveling and cause a great amount of skill bloat... for almost no gain. It would be positively frustrating to level to 70 on monk to get invigorate and B4B clones. The entire class system would have to be reworked and that has posibilities for disaster.

I know some people like it but I wouldn't mind seeing the rotations trimmed down to maybe World of WarCraft levels. ...Circa the Cataclysm maybe or Mists of Pandaria, not Warlords of Draenor. A literal 1,2,3,4 lacks depth. Right now, however, I think FFXIV has too much. I enjoyed the rotations in 2.x but Heavensward lumped a bunch more in.


My dream (and others may disagree) is to see simpler rotations and more mechanically interesting encounters. WoW is easy to dump on these days but I'll give it this: Any difficulty that might have been in game due to rotations is put into raids instead which gives the actual play of the encounters more depth. Or so I feel. I am trying to imagine people doing Mythic Blackhand or even older things like Yogg-Saron in his day with Heavensward rotations and I think it would give the WoW playerbase a mutual brain hemorrhage.

I am not saying I want the game to BE WoW of course. We have one already, but a similar raiding style would be cool since that is the one thing WoW has always done well, Dragon Soul aside. It seems like they are already moving into mechanics vs dps checks in 3.2.

I am deviating from the point here, aren't I? Sorry, OP.

[Nalien]

No. Sorry, but that is a horrible idea. There is a very popular MMO out there that did just that and every single class lost its class identity.

How? How does using another Jobs skills add to any sense of class identity? How does giving Jobs their own version of these cross-class skills remove any identity?

Having Second Wind on Ninja does not add to Ninjas identity, meanwhile there is a heal skill NPC Ninjas use (Suiyaku), which... You know... Would... Add to that the potential for these to be earned from "optional" quests, and you've provided more lore to the Jobs than before, while providing unique skills that fill the same function as the existing cross-class skills. That's not to say Suiyaku should be a carbon copy of Second Wind, it could be more/less potent, have a shorter/longer cooldown, could tie into existing Ninja mechanics (the Venoms), etc. etc.. Overall that does a lot more for class identity than setting Second Wind...

And for those worried about the fact that cross-class skills exist to have you "sample" other Jobs... Well, Jobs already do that, and such quests could carry on the additional class requirement the first Job quests had. Even tie in with the old classes; The quest for Suiyaku could have you taking your Ninja friends to Ul'dah to learn from the Pugilists, for example. Naturally you'd need Pugilist leveled for that. Actually having quests like that would make it far more obvious what skills you want to set as well. There would be no Warriors who don't know what Provoke is, because they'd see the quest unlocking their version of Provoke and work towards doing that quest.

[Blacksail]

Sooo... essentially... make every job the same? Cross class skill work fine.. If you want to be the most efficient you can be, just level the other jobs.. If not.. then well, you will just be a little less than the most efficient! cross class arent really a requirement for the job, it just makes it better!

[Jamillion]

Hopefully we'll just get new traits from 60-70, there's really no need for additional skills to be added.

[Nalien]

I'm really confused as to how giving each Job their own version of existing cross-class skills would make them the same... Cross-class skills make them all the same... Every DPS relies on Invigorate, for example. They all have the exact same skill for TP recovery. Giving Monk a status effect that works like Bloodbath but for TP, while Ninja gets a self-Goad instead... How does that make them identical? Dragoon would have Invigorate for 600TP, Monk would have a status effect that lets it get TP back per hit, Ninja would get a small amount of TP back every tic. Those all have essentially the same end result (regaining TP), but they're all different... Compare that to the current situation where they all just pop Invigorate... Am I retarded? How would unique skills instead of cross-class skills remotely homogenize Jobs? That's what cross-class skills are already doing... That's the whole point to giving Jobs something unique instead of just saying "You all get Invigorate"...

[Delmontyb]

give casters their own version of swiftcast/protect. give dps their own version of b4b/ir. this will opens the way to make it more unique to each job (maybe nin's b4b also makes ninjustus stronger, mnk b4b makes gl lasts longer?)
a lot of jobs are already pretty full on keybinds anyway, just make 4 of the 5 skill we get on the way to 70 the replacement for the common cross class skills with lvl 70 skill being the brand new one

I'm hoping this system get's revisited too... Hoping for 4.0 but it (or something like it) will happen at some point.