id like to see cross class skills removed/changed for next expansion

[Synrin]

snip

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

[Serilda]

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

They can still do that though. While some (Swiftcast, Provoke) may need to be the same as the originals with some slight modifications, there's no reason whatsoever that the simple buffs can't be reworked into completely unique abilities and the balance restored in other ways, which can potentially improve class diversity without just robbing us of yet another five buttons on our screen. A couple of jobs are absolutely crying out for this kind of tidying up.

To use an example I have put close to zero thought into, you could trade in RS and get a new ability which passively gives you the same damage buff RS gave you before, but with some other utility on top which adds a completely new mechanic. There's no reason that this suggestion has to make all of the new abilities boring.

[Synrin]

They can still do that though. While some (Swiftcast, Provoke) may need to be the same as the originals with some slight modifications, there's no reason whatsoever that the simple buffs can't be reworked into completely unique abilities and the balance restored in other ways, which can potentially improve class diversity without just robbing us of yet another five buttons on our screen. A couple of jobs are absolutely crying out for this kind of tidying up.

/shrug I do understand why they introduced the cross-class actions. But I suppose that it is always good to throw your idea out there.. Balancing things is hard though. And while some things may have the potential to be reworked into a unique ability, in the end they would all still do the same. And not to mention that not all people use all 5 of the available abilities as it is..

EDIT: 'Button bloating' mentioned above, I'd understand if you were on a console, not on the PC. Smh

[RiceisNice]

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

Except the button bloating thing is a bit of an issue right now. I use the numpad, two extra mouse buttons on top of the left/right and mouse wheel, ` through 8 on my keyboard with shift, alt and ctrl (for pets), and I don't have enough space to put in pvp abilties. Some jobs have abilities that ultimately do not add depth to the job (such as DwaD and gauss round) or pointlessly take up extra space for the sake of doing so (MCH mind rend and dismantle for one, warrior being the other since fell cleave and decimate are dps parallels to inner beast and steel cyclone)

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

Until they handle the button bloating as mentioned above, the 5 extra actions will further contribute to the problem at hand. Of course there's traits, but they'd have to be incredibly extensive to do much, to the point that you're probably better off using both traits and skills.

/shrug I do understand why they introduced the cross-class actions. But I suppose that it is always good to throw your idea out there.. Balancing things is hard though. And while some things may have the potential to be reworked into a unique ability, in the end they would all still do the same. And not to mention that not all people use all 5 of the available abilities as it is..

To run with his example, monk could entirely rely on purification for their TP; have it's cooldown lowered and the acquirement of meditation stacks to accomidate for it (such as every opo-opo action. Quick reload can be adjusted to be more emphasis on sustained dps through tp, or make a physical job that uses a swinging TP meter similiar to how BLM does with mana. You'd also free up a slot from invigorate for another monk-esq ability. Balancing isn't and easy job, but honestly the game in general is not a small project and after 3.x's weak start, they really cant afford to undersell job idenity again (which imo is primarily an issue with BRD, MCH and NIN to an extent)

[Alberel]

No. Sorry, but that is a horrible idea. There is a very popular MMO out there that did just that and every single class lost its class identity.
So go out there, level a class that can do what you need, and get over it. Cross-class actions work perfectly as they are and I hope they won't mess with that. Every job feels unique that way.
They are great because a) character development b) getting you to play the game and try other classes/jobs (so you learn more about what others might play, what a crazy thing, huh?!) c) rewards for effort d) class/job identity

I would argue that cross-class skills actually dilute job identity since everyone uses the same cross class skills from the classes available to them. The entire system gave SE a balancing headache as well since every job has to be balanced around their potential slotted skills.

If I'm honest I'm actually inclined to agree that the current system is rather boring. If we didn't have cross-class skills we could have some much more unique job-specific cooldowns instead. I would advise against having them acquired from 60-70 though. They should simply be available in the 1-35 range as those skills originally were.

[Nalien]

No. Sorry, but that is a horrible idea. There is a very popular MMO out there that did just that and every single class lost its class identity.

How? How does using another Jobs skills add to any sense of class identity? How does giving Jobs their own version of these cross-class skills remove any identity?

Having Second Wind on Ninja does not add to Ninjas identity, meanwhile there is a heal skill NPC Ninjas use (Suiyaku), which... You know... Would... Add to that the potential for these to be earned from "optional" quests, and you've provided more lore to the Jobs than before, while providing unique skills that fill the same function as the existing cross-class skills. That's not to say Suiyaku should be a carbon copy of Second Wind, it could be more/less potent, have a shorter/longer cooldown, could tie into existing Ninja mechanics (the Venoms), etc. etc.. Overall that does a lot more for class identity than setting Second Wind...

And for those worried about the fact that cross-class skills exist to have you "sample" other Jobs... Well, Jobs already do that, and such quests could carry on the additional class requirement the first Job quests had. Even tie in with the old classes; The quest for Suiyaku could have you taking your Ninja friends to Ul'dah to learn from the Pugilists, for example. Naturally you'd need Pugilist leveled for that. Actually having quests like that would make it far more obvious what skills you want to set as well. There would be no Warriors who don't know what Provoke is, because they'd see the quest unlocking their version of Provoke and work towards doing that quest.

[Synrin]

How? How does using another Jobs skills add to any sense of class identity? How does giving Jobs their own version of these cross-class skills remove any identity?

Simple. Now, I am not saying that using other classes' actions GIVES class identity, I'm saying that TAKING other classes' actions and redesigning them to fit another job (and assuming they would essentially do the same thing in the end) would TAKE AWAY those unique things to every class. How is it good at the moment, you may wonder, well that is simple too - you have leveled a CNJ and earned your Protect. You have the knowledge. This is fantasy-wise, of course. Mechanics-wise, it might be the easy way to go with the new expansion, but let's leave that up to developers. I just don't want to see the same thing from other MMOs happening here - every healer having 5 same mechanincs, only that they have different names and icons. Or a 4 button rotation. No thanks.

[Nalien]

I just don't want to see the same thing from other MMOs happening here - every healer having 5 same mechanincs, only that they have different names and icons. Or a 4 button rotation. No thanks.

Which is essentially exactly what you're arguing against... You're arguing to keep the current system, which is essential all Jobs sharing the same 5 skills. All healers have Protect. All DPS have Invigorate. They all have the exact same skills. Why are you against changing that?

What I'm suggesting is to give us unique versions of said skills. Not just different names and icons. Different skills with the same net result, I don't know how my previous example could be any more clear... Dragoon, Monk, and Ninja all currently have Invigorate, when instead they could all have a skill that does the same thing (restores own TP), just in different ways, even tying into their individual Job mechanics.

Sticking with my Suiyaku suggestion for Ninja, lets make it a combination of Invigorate and Second Wind; Kiss of the Wasp, it's TP recovery. Kiss of the Viper, it's HP recovery. Both weaker than Second Wind and Invigorate, but also on a lower cooldown. How is that making Ninja the same as Dragoon or Monk? How is that worse than literally just giving Ninja Second Wind and Invigorate, as is currently the case? You don't want Jobs to have the 5 same mechanics, yet that is exactly what cross-class skills do. Dragoon, Monk and Ninja all have the same Second Wind self heal. They all have the same Invigorate TP recovery. They all have Blood for Blood. What is being suggested here is to change that so they all have something unique instead.

[Synrin]

Which is essentially exactly what you're arguing against... You're arguing to keep the current system, which is essential all Jobs sharing the same 5 skills. All healers have Protect. All DPS have Invigorate. They all have the exact same skills. Why are you against changing that?

You see what you want to see. Read my last post, there is an explanation what I mind with this entire discussion. The idea itself, as any other, has its pros and cons, but most of the people just want things to be 'made easier' or simplified. It isn't always a bad thing to tidy certain things up, but come on...

[Khalithar]

Agree with OP. It's about time to ditch the cross class ability system and just give the classes the various abilities and cooldowns or just adjust their damage accordingly to compensate.