id like to see cross class skills removed/changed for next expansion

[Serilda]

It's obvious that cross class skills already weaken class identity when you see the adjustments they made a while back with Stoneskin and Protect to bring all of the healers in line with one another because balancing them all around the traited versions was impossible. The fact that Eye for an Eye comes from ACN is largely irrelevant when I'm throwing it around on another job in every fight and haven't used ACN since I unlocked SCH and SMN. The fact that a bunch of the key MCH abilities are actually BRD abilities just makes the similarities between those two jobs even more obvious, and it's a mess having all of your spells spread over three separate tabs in the abilities list. Hardly anyone ever changes from the 'optimal' cross class choices anyway because the rest are filler nobody wants to use.

[Alberel]

No. Sorry, but that is a horrible idea. There is a very popular MMO out there that did just that and every single class lost its class identity.
So go out there, level a class that can do what you need, and get over it. Cross-class actions work perfectly as they are and I hope they won't mess with that. Every job feels unique that way.
They are great because a) character development b) getting you to play the game and try other classes/jobs (so you learn more about what others might play, what a crazy thing, huh?!) c) rewards for effort d) class/job identity

I would argue that cross-class skills actually dilute job identity since everyone uses the same cross class skills from the classes available to them. The entire system gave SE a balancing headache as well since every job has to be balanced around their potential slotted skills.

If I'm honest I'm actually inclined to agree that the current system is rather boring. If we didn't have cross-class skills we could have some much more unique job-specific cooldowns instead. I would advise against having them acquired from 60-70 though. They should simply be available in the 1-35 range as those skills originally were.

[Synrin]

snip

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

[Serilda]

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

They can still do that though. While some (Swiftcast, Provoke) may need to be the same as the originals with some slight modifications, there's no reason whatsoever that the simple buffs can't be reworked into completely unique abilities and the balance restored in other ways, which can potentially improve class diversity without just robbing us of yet another five buttons on our screen. A couple of jobs are absolutely crying out for this kind of tidying up.

To use an example I have put close to zero thought into, you could trade in RS and get a new ability which passively gives you the same damage buff RS gave you before, but with some other utility on top which adds a completely new mechanic. There's no reason that this suggestion has to make all of the new abilities boring.

[RiceisNice]

Not here to discuss SE's design/development/mechanics of every single class, but OP's idea. (Redesinging an already existing action for another job to have just because of too many keybinds (LOL))

Except the button bloating thing is a bit of an issue right now. I use the numpad, two extra mouse buttons on top of the left/right and mouse wheel, ` through 8 on my keyboard with shift, alt and ctrl (for pets), and I don't have enough space to put in pvp abilties. Some jobs have abilities that ultimately do not add depth to the job (such as DwaD and gauss round) or pointlessly take up extra space for the sake of doing so (MCH mind rend and dismantle for one, warrior being the other since fell cleave and decimate are dps parallels to inner beast and steel cyclone)

In the next expansion, if we do get 5 more new actions, I would rather have them introduce new mechanics and more creative actions that would suit our jobs' fantasies and not redesigned other classes' actions. Thanks.

Until they handle the button bloating as mentioned above, the 5 extra actions will further contribute to the problem at hand. Of course there's traits, but they'd have to be incredibly extensive to do much, to the point that you're probably better off using both traits and skills.

/shrug I do understand why they introduced the cross-class actions. But I suppose that it is always good to throw your idea out there.. Balancing things is hard though. And while some things may have the potential to be reworked into a unique ability, in the end they would all still do the same. And not to mention that not all people use all 5 of the available abilities as it is..

To run with his example, monk could entirely rely on purification for their TP; have it's cooldown lowered and the acquirement of meditation stacks to accomidate for it (such as every opo-opo action. Quick reload can be adjusted to be more emphasis on sustained dps through tp, or make a physical job that uses a swinging TP meter similiar to how BLM does with mana. You'd also free up a slot from invigorate for another monk-esq ability. Balancing isn't and easy job, but honestly the game in general is not a small project and after 3.x's weak start, they really cant afford to undersell job idenity again (which imo is primarily an issue with BRD, MCH and NIN to an extent)

[Synrin]

They can still do that though. While some (Swiftcast, Provoke) may need to be the same as the originals with some slight modifications, there's no reason whatsoever that the simple buffs can't be reworked into completely unique abilities and the balance restored in other ways, which can potentially improve class diversity without just robbing us of yet another five buttons on our screen. A couple of jobs are absolutely crying out for this kind of tidying up.

/shrug I do understand why they introduced the cross-class actions. But I suppose that it is always good to throw your idea out there.. Balancing things is hard though. And while some things may have the potential to be reworked into a unique ability, in the end they would all still do the same. And not to mention that not all people use all 5 of the available abilities as it is..

EDIT: 'Button bloating' mentioned above, I'd understand if you were on a console, not on the PC. Smh

[Derio]

Honestly I dont understand why this is even necessary.

If you remove cross class skills it would require as much work as creating a new job almost. Because they would have to go in and create job specific versions of provoke for War, DRK and any new tank class that they add.

Also they would have to create a specific version of swiftcast for all healing classes. SMN and any new mage/healing class they add. Ultimately adding in more work in the long run.

That is over 30 abilities they have to create and name for individual classes as well as icons for these abilities.

All of this work when they could have used that work on something more productive.

[Cnidarian]

It's obvious that cross class skills already weaken class identity when you see the adjustments they made a while back with Stoneskin and Protect to bring all of the healers in line with one another because balancing them all around the traited versions was impossible. The fact that Eye for an Eye comes from ACN is largely irrelevant when I'm throwing it around on another job in every fight and haven't used ACN since I unlocked SCH and SMN. The fact that a bunch of the key MCH abilities are actually BRD abilities just makes the similarities between those two jobs even more obvious, and it's a mess having all of your spells spread over three separate tabs in the abilities list. Hardly anyone ever changes from the 'optimal' cross class choices anyway because the rest are filler nobody wants to use.

It's obvious you don't understand the reason behind the ProShell and Stoneskin changes. If WHM was the only job to have ProShell then it would be a required job to have in end game resulting in WHM/SCH or WHM/AST combo only, completely negating AST/SCH combo. Stoneskin was changed because of the hp inflation we got in HW. Just look at how NPC's work in a quest with you, their HP is so high that casting SS on them becomes completely OP. Both of these needed to change in order to 1, prevent making one specific healer required 100% of the time, and 2, to prevent an ability that worked fine in 2.X content from being OP in 3.X content.

Without said changes, in the current meta, AST would have no place at all in end game raids. SCH/WHM combo would comprise the majority of statics due to how powerful it would be.

[Serilda]

It's obvious you don't understand the reason behind the ProShell and Stoneskin changes. If WHM was the only job to have ProShell then it would be a required job to have in end game resulting in WHM/SCH or WHM/AST combo only, completely negating AST/SCH combo. Stoneskin was changed because of the hp inflation we got in HW. Just look at how NPC's work in a quest with you, their HP is so high that casting SS on them becomes completely OP. Both of these needed to change in order to 1, prevent making one specific healer required 100% of the time, and 2, to prevent an ability that worked fine in 2.X content from being OP in 3.X content.

While this is not really on topic, I feel compelled to respond to this assertion and assure you that I do understand the reason and furthermore, it doesn't bother me at all (I play SCH and AST as well). I brought it up as an example of how difficult it is to balance cross class abilities when the donor class gains advantages through traits, and how balancing those traits has been necessary in the past as a result. It's silly to have optional cross class abilities which are 100% non-optional and then to be unable to make them more interesting with traits because doing so would make it impossible for others who rely on those abilities to stand on equal footing with the donor class. With those abilities, they fixed them and the forums were full of angry threads for some time because nobody likes getting a nerf, even if they understand why it's necessary. Being able to tune the cross class abilities more directly for each job would frankly be far less of a headache than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole just to keep the existing cross class system in place. And if some cross class abilities are 100% essential, as many are, then they may as well just be given out to all of those jobs properly instead of being little more than a trap to allow experienced players the opportunity to sigh at those who don't realise that they haven't grabbed their full set of skills yet.

[Lillia]

Orrrrrrr how about they upgrade our traits when we get to 70 instead? make the traits affect our skills that we already have then we won't need more skill bars for the time being. o/

Edit: I took a look at my white mage bar just now; Eye for an Eye, Virus and Swiftcast. The skills I named are the only three that I even have from another class as a healer, I am more filled with my own skills than I am with another class's skill. I think the problem really lies in the way the layout was designed and the skill system is. :/