id like to see cross class skills removed/changed for next expansion

[Nalien]

I'm really confused as to how giving each Job their own version of existing cross-class skills would make them the same... Cross-class skills make them all the same... Every DPS relies on Invigorate, for example. They all have the exact same skill for TP recovery. Giving Monk a status effect that works like Bloodbath but for TP, while Ninja gets a self-Goad instead... How does that make them identical? Dragoon would have Invigorate for 600TP, Monk would have a status effect that lets it get TP back per hit, Ninja would get a small amount of TP back every tic. Those all have essentially the same end result (regaining TP), but they're all different... Compare that to the current situation where they all just pop Invigorate... Am I retarded? How would unique skills instead of cross-class skills remotely homogenize Jobs? That's what cross-class skills are already doing... That's the whole point to giving Jobs something unique instead of just saying "You all get Invigorate"...

[Delmontyb]

give casters their own version of swiftcast/protect. give dps their own version of b4b/ir. this will opens the way to make it more unique to each job (maybe nin's b4b also makes ninjustus stronger, mnk b4b makes gl lasts longer?)
a lot of jobs are already pretty full on keybinds anyway, just make 4 of the 5 skill we get on the way to 70 the replacement for the common cross class skills with lvl 70 skill being the brand new one

I'm hoping this system get's revisited too... Hoping for 4.0 but it (or something like it) will happen at some point.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Why?

You are making the game less fun by doing this. I actually want "more" cross class skills from the Advanced Jobs.

[ErikMynhier]

So a few classes have Conjurer for cross-class, all of which get "Cleric Stance" except PLD. I understand why we don't get it, we have no use for it, but I would be lying if I said I didn't want another skill to make up for the one we miss out on.

If I could change one thing about the cross-class system, the only thing I would change, is instead of CS we got Esuna to help us be tank-support. I don't care for DPS but I love utility. I would love Esuna for OTing and solo utility.

As per the topic I think the current system is good. Someone put it best saying it forces you to experience the other classes. In the case of PLD that time you spend leveling Conjurer gives you a perspective you may not have gotten otherwise and makes you a kinder tank to healers.

[Kosmos992k]

So a few classes have Conjurer for cross-class, all of which get "Cleric Stance" except PLD. I understand why we don't get it, we have no use for it, but I would be lying if I said I didn't want another skill to make up for the one we miss out on.

If I could change one thing about the cross-class system, the only thing I would change, is instead of CS we got Esuna to help us be tank-support. I don't care for DPS but I love utility. I would love Esuna for OTing and solo utility.

As per the topic I think the current system is good. Someone put it best saying it forces you to experience the other classes. In the case of PLD that time you spend leveling Conjurer gives you a perspective you may not have gotten otherwise and makes you a kinder tank to healers.

Speaking as PLD...how about a trait to make cure worthwhile, and another to give a reason to include Raise in your selection (battle raise, raise on it's own is near pointless). Generally speaking, I think that cross class skills need to be revisited. There are numerous cross skills that are not even mere shadows of the original when used by someone else, and others that are identical to the original. For example Stoneskin is the same when PLD casts it as it is for WHM, by comparison other skills are so weak, there is no point including them. For example Skull Sunder, and Fracture, which theory crafters have calculated to be an actual dps loss when used, so it's actually in effect a penalty skill against us. This is ridiculous, and most, if not all, jobs have this issue, some more than others. Fix that, and you make the skill selection worthwhile, and allow us to build an individual flavor within a job..

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Speaking as PLD...how about a trait to make cure worthwhile, and another to give a reason to include Raise in your selection (battle raise, raise on it's own is near pointless). Generally speaking, I think that cross class skills need to be revisited. There are numerous cross skills that are not even mere shadows of the original when used by someone else, and others that are identical to the original. For example Stoneskin is the same when PLD casts it as it is for WHM, by comparison other skills are so weak, there is no point including them. For example Skull Sunder, and Fracture, which theory crafters have calculated to be an actual dps loss when used, so it's actually in effect a penalty skill against us. This is ridiculous, and most, if not all, jobs have this issue, some more than others. Fix that, and you make the skill selection worthwhile, and allow us to build an individual flavor within a job..

There is a trait, its called Clemency. It out heals the healer's basic heal.

I think what they need to do is remove skill restrictions to encourage people to level.

[Kosmos992k]

There is a trait, its called Clemency. It out heals the healer's basic heal.

I think what they need to do is remove skill restrictions to encourage people to level.

That's a skill, not a trait, and it does absolutely nothing for PLD until they hit level 58, which restricts it's use somewhat or did you forget thatthere are players who are not level 60? ...not to mention that this topic is about cross class skills and I was using PLD to illustrate a point that goes beyond cure. But, hey, you go right ahead and ignore the point.

I think what they should do is make things more useful so there is a choice to be made, otherwise it's the usual illusion of choice that is not a choice because certain cross skills ar more or less mandatory and the rest are pointless wastes of time. They should all be viable to be used, so that they are all part of the choices a player can make.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That's a skill, not a trait, and it does absolutely nothing for PLD until they hit level 58, which restricts it's use somewhat or did you forget thatthere are players who are not level 60? ...not to mention that this topic is about cross class skills and I was using PLD to illustrate a point that goes beyond cure. But, hey, you go right ahead and ignore the point.

I think what they should do is make things more useful so there is a choice to be made, otherwise it's the usual illusion of choice that is not a choice because certain cross skills ar more or less mandatory and the rest are pointless wastes of time. They should all be viable to be used, so that they are all part of the choices a player can make.

I wouldn't know, I have multiple level 60 characters. Leveling in so grindy though in this game.

[Rowyne]

If anyone thinks the armoury system has caused us to lose class/job identity now, they obviously didn't play 1.0. There used to be almost no cross-classing restrictions. Everybody could practically do everything in the 'build your own class' system. What we have now is a huge improvement.

Even more simply put, my CNJ feels nothing like a THM. We even have unique jobs now. It didn't used to be that way.

[Canadane]

This request sounds like a way to get off from levelling other classes.
Which to me sounds like you won't really appreciate what the other classes can do if you never touch them.

You also have to remember, you're not your job. You may like one job so much you'll only level that. That's fine. That's your choice to make as as adventurer. Player characters, adventurers, are not designated to one role. You're able to make choices and do what you want. As such, learning skills from various trades, jobs, and situations will only further assist you in battle due to previous experiences. Putting down that axe may quell your inner beast, but the foresight to see oncoming danger will still be with you! Studying the mantras on your monk won't be forgotten just because you picked up another weapon.

You're more than just your job, and class identity should absolutely be smudged. Smeared all over the world to create a something more precious than double — no, triple — rainbow stretching all the way across the realm!