[SPOILERS] Minfillia' Fate in 3.2

[Cilia]

[The Ascians are] one-dimensional villains, taking lessons from Zeromus and Yu Yevon, it's why I'm eager to be finished with them, so we can move onto characters like Ilberd and the Garlean Empire. Villains who might actually have a point, rather than villains who insert evil laughter after every other line...

Regardless of their lack of depth, we still don't know the whole story, and until we do we can't say following Hydaelyn's will is the best course of action. We still don't know the whole truth, and until we do we can't just write off the Ascians as one-note cliché villains intent on spreading death and destruction for shits and giggles (or to resurrect Zodiark).

According to the Word, this is because Zodiark began to covet power which upset the balance, leading to His banishment. That said, this is only half of the story, and until we have the other we can't decide what the truth is... or at least, what truth we want to believe in.

Am I saying Hydaelyn is evil and we should go deicide on Her? No.
Am I saying the Ascians are just misunderstood and we should consider joining them or leaving them to their devices? No.

But we at least deserve to know why we're fighting beyond "to keep the Darkness banished" and whether or not, for everything we have done and all the people that have sacrificed themselves, it's making any tangible difference.

[CyrilLucifer]

Pretty much... I don't get why he didn't just out right tell us TheTruth™

Forgive me for going slightly off topic, but the funniest thing about this? Remember, right before 3.2, we had a short discussion about the trailer line "seek. . ." and what we would be told to seek by Hydaelyn?

We were told almost exactly what we thought we were going to be told: Seek [something that might as well be The Truth™]. We went to the Antitower for answers and we came out looking for those exact same answers, but now with more questions.

[Belhi]

/snip

I don't think we have the full story by any means. However I not sure Zodiark really cares that much about mortal life at all. His servants certainly hold little regard for it. If anything they almost hold contempt. Zodiark's interest might not be in life but in the Aetheric Sea itself particularly if we are Hydaelyn's children as the line "For fear of the Moon, she cast her children to the seas".

I think in the end Hydaelyn's solution wasn't a good one and it will fall to us to find a better option. This patch as strongly pointed to Hydaelyn basically no longer having any fight left in her. She is out of the battle. That means we, as the WoL, are not the key player on the 'Light' side. Really the key part in this is the question of why the Light and Dark divided in the first place and what does their reunion mean for us. Did Zodiark make a grab for power and why? If he was restored now would he be on an even footing with Hydaelyn or would he be at full strength while she is too weak to even commune with her chosen?

I seriously doubt we will find the Ascians were in the right all along and only acting as destructively as they did cause they saw no other choice.

[Fenral]

I seriously doubt we will find the Ascians were in the right all along and only acting as destructively as they did cause they saw no other choice.

Is it really so impossible for you to separate "end" and "means?" Their means are terrible, and I'm still not saying otherwise, but clearly something about their end is justifying it. To them.

Maybe our objectives really are mutually incompatible, and that's why the Ascians don't feel like explaining themselves, but for this to be a "war" in which one side just happens to be pure, irredeemable evil we can obliterate with a clean conscience seems really unlikely at this point, especially as a companion piece to the Dragonsong War.

I'm still getting serious Dhaos vibes from the whole situation.

[CyrilLucifer]

I don't mean to imply Zodiark cares about life, we don't know if He does either way, but with life comes aether. He has no life and little energy. He is barren, desolate - dead. So yes, I do believe Hydaelyn took everything from Him. Again, whether or not that's justified, who knows? She believes it is.

I actually think we might have a Promathia-styled thing there with Zodiark actually despising life because its existence takes from Him what he believes to be rightfully His (and in Promathia's case, it was actually true, but He got over it, because mortals were His children, too).

[Berethos]

Maybe our objectives really are mutually incompatible

For the "main" force of Ascians - Lahabrea, Nabriales, and their ilk - I'd be very, very surprised if this was anything but the case. Consider something that ol' Nabby says in the Chrysalis..."Insatiable hunger of the void! Devour all light and return this world to perfect darkness!" Notable, since I do believe that gets mentioned a couple other times by the black-robed Ascians, so it's a running theme with them.

Side thought - possible the black-robed Ascians don't fully understand what Zodiark wants?

Our current goal, whether it's under Hydaelyn's guiding hand or not, is basically to not have the world "return to perfect darkness" and I don't think there's many goals we could have even without following Hydaelyn that would be compatible with that either.

Elidibus? If there's any Ascian whose goals could turn out to be compatible, it's him. After all, he's the one talking about balance, and balance has a better chance of not dooming us all than being returned to perfect darkness.

[AdamuKun322]

I think our sojoun into Antitower kind of Rocked the WoL's mindset quite literally.

[Belhi]

That's another question. How, if they infact are, are the Ascians and Zodiark linked to the Void? Its not 'hell' or 'heaven' of FF14. Its this weird side realm that overlaps a lot and has lots of 'darkness' themes. The Ascians do seem to use the Void at least. Curiously the Void seems to have its own Aetheric energy since it and it's denizens can be used as a source of power. Assuming Voidsent are a form of life they would naturally have some form of Aetheric nature.

This is the problem we have at the moment. Not only do we know know enough about the players in this conflict and their intentions, but we don't even know enough about the metaphysics of the world to really understand the implications of those intensions in clear context. Our ignorance is still vast.

[Kaiser-Ace]

snipt.

Since Voidsent feed on Aether (Hydaelyn's Specifically) I'm thinking that The Void is likely made of what is basically "Negative Aether" with the opposite charge of Hydaelyn aether. Possibly in the same way as Matter and Anti-Matter interact. (read Destructively Bad). But that would allow for how Void Magics differs from Hydaelyn's Magics as well as how beings that can use magic (Thus can obviously manipulate their home world's energy) that they would consume this world's aether as living neutralizer.

How this relates to the Ascians I have no idea. But it may be the same Duality thing as Ascians vs WoLs. Light vs Dark, Positive vs Negative, etc, etc.

[Cilia]

Let's see.. as the WoL we carry the Light and blessing to do Hydalean's Business while she's weak. Zodiark is pretty much the Void at this point in the game. This "Source" Minifilla mentioned is probably what we are to protect and "seek" first before the Ascians get their hands on it. Elidibus... he needs to talk to us again to add more to the other side of the coin.

To clarify on this: when the Word of the Mother speaks of "Reflections of the Source," she's speaking about fragments of Zodiark; each Rejoining (a.k.a. Calamity) thus... rejoins one Reflection to the whole of Zodiark, meaning the Ascians would need 13 Rejoinings in total to complete their mission.

I get the feeling this is what Midgardsormr was (is?) protecting in Silvertear Lake: the wellspring of aether is also the seal that keeps the Reflections bound and away from the moon (Zodiark's desiccated corpse, cosmically speaking). While we only know the area of impact behind two Calamities (the Fourth that wiped out Allag, and then Dalamud's descent), both took place in and around Mor Dhona... It's either that or a Shimmering Island-style portal leading to alternate worlds, one of which is the home of the Warriors of Darkness. 13 different worlds thanks to Hydaelyn's sundering of the world, each of which dies after a certain Calamity? Or something? I need to get off the crazy train...

Hydaelyn's power seems independent of Zodiark's influence, though. Regardless, at 7 Rejoinings they're over halfway there, and Hydaelyn seems too weak to lend us assists any longer.

Still need to get the other side of the story from a civil Ascian... if only he had been more forthcoming with the Truth™ in the first place...