[SPOILERS] Minfillia' Fate in 3.2

[AdamuKun322]

Let's see.. as the WoL we carry the Light and blessing to do Hydalean's Business while she's weak. Zodiark is pretty much the Void at this point in the game. This "Source" Minifilla mentioned is probably what we are to protect and "seek" first before the Ascians get their hands on it. Elidibus... he needs to talk to us again to add more to the other side of the coin.

[Nalien]

Elidibus... he needs to talk to us again to add more to the other side of the coin.

Pretty much... I don't get why he didn't just out right tell us TheTruth™. We didn't need to believe it, we could have viewed him as "That crazy guy who think Hydaelyn kills kittens!", but over time we'd come to see the truth... We'd rock into Antitower, see all the kitten bones and lament our poor judgment...

Instead, I'm not convinced there is any shocking truth to be uncovered... This just seems like a scheme, the kind Ascians are known for... If they can orchestrate putting a Dragon God in a moon so thousands of years later they can drop it back down to cause a Calamity, they are fully capable of planting the seed of doubt in our minds, then waiting for Hydaelyn to slip up and have us question things... "YES! Hydaelyn would sacrifice Minfilia! That's what I knew all along... and didn't tell you even though that could likely have lead to you preventing it from happening... Forget that! Be mad at Hydaelyn! Join me!".

I really cannot imagine peace with Ascians... Not because I don't accept it as a possibility, but because I don't see it as a possibility... They've always been the ones in control, they're the ones who know everything and have all the power... Peace isn't something one side makes happen, both sides have to be involved. We murdered Nidhogg because he was absolutely against peace, he was happily toying with Ishgard for revenge. The Ascians seem absolutely no different. Every encounter with them (sans Elidibus) is dripping with disdain and almost always results in them attacking us, despite the fact that they can just port out on a whim... They're never have to fight us, they can just port out and wait (which is what they always attempt when they fail to kill us), they fight us because they want us dead...

Elidibus was the best hope for actually talking things out, but he seems far more interesting in acting all buddy buddy over a joint assault on some Primals... As if I've forgotten who goes around teaching tribes how to summon these things... As if I've forgotten who gave Allag the means to trap Primals in the first place... He's left it too long, he just comes off as manipulative at this point, which is going to make me question the validity of his "truth". Whatever terrible thing Hydaelyn has done, I'm not seeing it... All I'm seeing is Hydaelyn constantly being assaulted by them... From my stand point, they're responsible for most (if not all) of the conflicts and suffering going on... They've made it very apparent that they play the long game and sow seeds to reap much later... Meanwhile, Hydaelyn is just kinda there... I've yet to see what is so terrible about Her existence, and the people who are apparently aware of this thing are more interested in murdering me than telling me... So this is either a case of Elidibus playing us, or the writers playing Bravely Default and thinking Alternis Dim being unable to spell out the real threat, despite being aware of it, was the most brilliant plot ever... Does anyone win here?

[CyrilLucifer]

Pretty much... I don't get why he didn't just out right tell us TheTruth™

Forgive me for going slightly off topic, but the funniest thing about this? Remember, right before 3.2, we had a short discussion about the trailer line "seek. . ." and what we would be told to seek by Hydaelyn?

We were told almost exactly what we thought we were going to be told: Seek [something that might as well be The Truth™]. We went to the Antitower for answers and we came out looking for those exact same answers, but now with more questions.

[Cilia]

Let's see.. as the WoL we carry the Light and blessing to do Hydalean's Business while she's weak. Zodiark is pretty much the Void at this point in the game. This "Source" Minifilla mentioned is probably what we are to protect and "seek" first before the Ascians get their hands on it. Elidibus... he needs to talk to us again to add more to the other side of the coin.

To clarify on this: when the Word of the Mother speaks of "Reflections of the Source," she's speaking about fragments of Zodiark; each Rejoining (a.k.a. Calamity) thus... rejoins one Reflection to the whole of Zodiark, meaning the Ascians would need 13 Rejoinings in total to complete their mission.

I get the feeling this is what Midgardsormr was (is?) protecting in Silvertear Lake: the wellspring of aether is also the seal that keeps the Reflections bound and away from the moon (Zodiark's desiccated corpse, cosmically speaking). While we only know the area of impact behind two Calamities (the Fourth that wiped out Allag, and then Dalamud's descent), both took place in and around Mor Dhona... It's either that or a Shimmering Island-style portal leading to alternate worlds, one of which is the home of the Warriors of Darkness. 13 different worlds thanks to Hydaelyn's sundering of the world, each of which dies after a certain Calamity? Or something? I need to get off the crazy train...

Hydaelyn's power seems independent of Zodiark's influence, though. Regardless, at 7 Rejoinings they're over halfway there, and Hydaelyn seems too weak to lend us assists any longer.

Still need to get the other side of the story from a civil Ascian... if only he had been more forthcoming with the Truth™ in the first place...

[Belhi]

Still need to get the other side of the story from a civil Ascian... if only he had been more forthcoming with the Truth™ in the first place...

If it does turn out the Truth does change our perception of what the Ascians are doing I really hope someone calls them out on making everything far more difficult than it needed to be.

'Elidibus, you jackass! Open with those little details next time!'

[Delily]

If it does turn out the Truth does change our perception of what the Ascians are doing I really hope someone calls them out on making everything far more difficult than it needed to be.

'Elidibus, you jackass! Open with those little details next time!'

I honestly don't think that's possible. It's been brought up before, but it bears repeating that historically, the Ascians are not what anyone would call good people. They've been responsible for the 7 Calamities. They taught people how to summon primals in order to weaken Hydaelyn. They helped Thordan become a primal. They reanimate bodies to use as hosts. They systemically use people as pawns to further their goal and then either trick them or discard them. I think the writers (or at least the English localization team) have made efforts to show that anything the Ascians want is not good for any living creature on Hydaelyn (the planet). Elidibus may be a worm, created by Zodiarl

As for the question of whether or not what Hydaelyn did was ethical/moral, there is a saying that goes you can't be honorable all the time, or you'll lose to the dishonorable. They focused very heavily on the fact that Hydaelyn is weakening, and it seems Minifilia's role as the Word is a desperate attempt for the Mothercrystal to find some way to communicate with us. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I think what makes the distinction is what Hydaelyn will do once she no longer needs Minifilia. Will she release her control and let Minifilia back into Eorzea? Will she allow her to be reborn? I suspect the key difference between the Ascians and Hydaelyn will be that Hydaelyn does not take lightly to using someone directly. Whereas the Ascians use someone and discard them, Hydaelyn seems more interested in guiding a person. It might just be she needed Minifilia as a last resort. The "NO" Minifilia exclaimed may have been her shock at realizing how weak the Mothercrystal was.

[CyrilLucifer]

snip

Threadly reminder that the Ascians are not and have never been a hive mind. They do not share the same methods, let alone agree on them. Elidibus is currently aiding us in some way; Nabriales would be throwing a fit if he was still alive and knew. He threw a fit when Elidibus just visited us.

That's not to say that what Lahabrea was hoping for was good, but the goal of reunification may have been necessary, for both Hydaelyn and Zodiark (but Holy Hydaelyn is it cathartic to say that Best Ascian may have been right all along, just his methods needed checking).

Edit to Nalien: I'm referring to the discussion on the previous page, which had to do with the splitting of the crystals and how it seems quite likely that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are intended to be in balance, as it was when the universe was in its basal state. Both need to exist and interact for the balance of the universe to be maintained. Separated as they are right now, it's causing problems for Hydaelyn. I'm not saying Hydaelyn's existence is detrimental at all.

[Nalien]

Separated as they are right now, it's causing problems for Hydaelyn.

And this is where I completely disagree... We've got no evidence of that, if anything we have evidence to the contrary...

Seven Rejoinings, successful attempts at rejoining.... whatever... And all of them have been calamitous in nature... There is no indication that correcting this "problem" is good for us, there is a mountain of evidence that is is bad. There is no indication that Hydaelyn has done anything wrong, that's entirely speculative... There is no evidence that a splitting whatever is in any way a problem, every problem we've seen has instead been caused by the Ascians...

I mean I agree with the concept, because this is Final Fantasy and several of the games have dealt with "death is inevitable" on both a personal and global scale before... It's because of that that I cannot see an idyllic solution, though... I can see Hydaelyn splitting reality resulting in an imperfect world that will eventually crumble away and die, and I can see the Ascians fighting to undo that to prevent the heat death of the universe, but you know, at the cost of life itself, which defeats the purpose IMO. I see more in common here with FFIV and FFIX, than I do FFV, where love and friendship restore the balance and everyone is happy! Hydaelyn is Gaia, Zodiark is Terra. We have an example of a dead planet (or rather moon). People from it who want to restore their "God" by sacrificing ours. All we need is Elidibus (or rather Lahabrea, Elidibus seems more like a Garland character) to shatter Hydaelyn so we can get our odd fight with Necron out of the way, where we declare that we don't care if we'll eventually die, so we can move onto more interesting villains...

Ascians even potentially had the same "I can die?!" realization Kuja had, after we put Nabriales down... I half expect Lahabrea to return just for that realization to really be hammered home, so he can go Trance mode... He is the one who started the job of destroying Hydaelyn, after all... That was the whole point of Ultima... And really, who doesn't want to see Lahabrea rock that Kuja cosplay?

[CyrilLucifer]

I'm not seeing the IX references at all. I'm seeing it as closer to Promathia and Altana in XI, which is by word of God what they were going for with the "world" themes:

Yoshida: Speaking of "the void," what's on the other side in another world was also a theme back in FFXI.

That same interview also mentions we'll learn Umbral Eras and how they come into play which we haven't covered yet, however they do seem to be important to Hydaelyn's balance, so SE might not be done leaking information on the cosmic order in 3.X to us.
Source: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12....1-Impressions

Also, unlike in IX, Hydaelyn did this to Zodiark. Zodiark (supposedly) provoked Hydaelyn, true, but it was Hydaelyn that split what was intended to be one. It's not like Terra and Gaia where one is clearly the innocent and the other a parasite. Both sides have a hand in this and, again, unlike IX, these are two celestial objects that were at one point connected, Zodiark is not alien.

Actually, being a Moon might well be intentional. The Moon, in our own Universe, is extremely important for keeping oceanic patterns (and, therefore, influences the weather) in check. Imperative, actually.

Now, in XI, Promathia was understandably agitated that Altana had split his flesh into mortals and destroyed the Mothercrystal, effectively ending the age of Gods. But he eventually rejoined Altana, in what I'm hoping ends up similar to XIV's situation where Hydaelyn and Zodiark can kindasorta come to an agreement.

[Fenral]

And this is where I completely disagree... We've got no evidence of that, if anything we have evidence to the contrary...

Do I need to remind you that Word of God states that pretty much everything we know of history was written down in the Sixth Astral Era (barring the occasional Allagan archive)? Aside from that, all we have is stuff told to us by Hydaelyn, who quite openly has Her own agenda. If she really wants us to Hear, Feel, Think for ourselves, I don't see a positive benefit to ruling stuff out. If there's really nothing wrong with what she did, we'll uncover that truth for ourselves and get right back on with our merry Ascian-slaying adventure and banish the darkness forever. Go Light!