[SPOILERS] Minfillia' Fate in 3.2

[Frederick22]

Tataru was always the liitle posstive voice of hope
Thats all im gonna say ^^

[Vexander]

Hard to have an opinion on this... On the one hand, is it wrong of Hydaelyn to force someone to become their meat puppet? That question in and of itself is riddled with so many more questions and different viewpoints on morals that it's impossible to answer. I will say this feels like a natural progression for Minfilia, though. My hope going forward is that, once Hydaelyn does become incapable of sustaining herself, Minfilia returns to Eorzea with the last remnants of Hydaelyn's power, and the Mother Crystal's consciousness slumbering within her, to be awoken only as needed.

Though if that were the case I wouldn't be at all surprised if Minfilia undergoes immaculate conception and gives birth to a mortal Hydaelyn nine months later.

[Nalien]

Way I see it;

2.0, Hydaelyn protects us in Praetorium, Ultima sapping most of her power. Lahabrea>> JustAsPlanned.jpg
2.1, Isle of Val is attacked (by Nabriales?), Hydaelyn protects Krile, albeit far less efficiently given she ends up in an annoying seven-patch coma (whether that is because Krile is a non-combatant, or because Hydaelyn was weakened, I'll leave to you).
2.55, Hydaelyn tells Minfilia something shocking, resulting in Minfilia running back after likening us to a beacon of hope; "As long as your flame continues to burn, the light of the dawn may ever be relit!".

Having rewatched 2.55s cutscene... Minfilia doesn't actually seem all that reluctant to run back... She was shocked, but seemingly not in a "I'm not sure I want to do that..." kind of way... So what shocked her? Well... Given that quote, I'm guessing Hydaelyn told her that her light was fading... Game over, certainly something to "No!" over...

Word of the Mother tells us that Hydaelyn used Flow to bring Minfilia before her, but then Hydaelyn was silent. Unable to communicate as she had been for most of 2.1 onwards, so Minfilia prayed and made an offering of herself. Word of the Mother is born, we show up and get an abridged history lesson, and one final unfinished plea, before she uses the very last of her power to return us.

That isn't the whole picture, though... Hydaelyn spoke to us fairly recently; Right after we met Tiamat. Except was that Hydaelyn? Yes and no. I'd speculate that the Blessing of Light is a fraction of Hydaelyns being, the torch we carry. The one we can use to relight the light of the dawn. So the Hydaelyn that spoke to us during Heavensward was, in fact, the fraction of Hydaelyn stored in the Blessing, not the Mother Crystal that spoke to (and used) Minfilia. Either that of Hydaelyn is a real idiot...

So... The Word of the Mothers final words? Seek... Seek what, exactly? Well, if my speculation is correct (and it better be, because otherwise she should have told us what to seek right after we got the Blessing back...), obviously we'll be seeking Crystals of Light (*see end). They're part of Hydaelyn, the flame we can use to relight the Mother Crystal. Given the story thus far, that makes far more sense to me, than some ridiculous notion that, because Hydaelyn has body-jacked one person, she now suddenly needs human sacrifices to survive...

Don't get me wrong, how Hydaelyn used Minfilia certainly does suck, but it really doesn't have me questioning any core beliefs... Primals are still incredibly dangerous, and Ascians are still immortal jerks who seem to get off on mass genocide... Eldibus sending Derplander to slay Ravana doesn't really change the fact that the Gnath likely only summoned Ravana because the Ascians taught them, same thing for the Triad... The Warriors of Darkness walking a different path could have made for a compelling argument, except they almost instantly attacked us... OK Elidibus, I get it, you don't want to just talk it out with us because we've proven we can kill your sorry ass... Derplander was the perfect chance to open a channel we could talk through though, but instead you had him go straight for the kill? Bravo, I guess... Lets see where you're going with Kidibus, I guess...

When it comes to Minfilia being body-jacked though, I have to ask myself; What was the plan? The fact that people are questioning Hydaelyn because of this, for me, proves that it would basically have been a stupid plan... If there was another choice, why go for the one that easily paints you in a bad light? "Hydaelyn had Minfilia sacrificed!" is just easy ammunition for Elidibus to coerce us with... I'm incline to think the plan was for Minfilia to receive Hydaelyns last will and testament, before being sent back, effectively the same way we were. The plan failed though, like all of her plans have up to this point... She didn't even have the MP to warp Minfilia there herself, she had to leech some off Y'shtola... She needed a bit more MP to tell someone everything and warp them back, and Minfilia offered herself for that... And that still failed...

It's pretty sh*tty, but what's done is done, and if it causes Alphinaud to resolve to find a better way in future? Good. There is absolutely no way it is going to really change the path we're on though, not that that will stop Elidibus from trying to make us take Derplanders path following this... As I've speculated for a while, I expect their beef with Hydaelyn is that Hydaelyn lets you die, but what is life without death? The Fiends lyrics certainly allude to this... Not so much anything to do with the Ascians, but certainly the notion that Hydaelyn "will leave you to die!", and it is certainly a notion reinforced by any of the songs sung from Hydaelyns perspective. I can see Derplander being coerced by the notion that death shouldn't exist, and it only exists because of Hydaelyn, so Hydaelyn is bad. Kinda missing the point of life there though, IMO...

Deconstructing Dragonsong with some of that in mind is fairly interesting, given I'm fairly certain it's been mentioned that it has multiple meanings, obviously for Ishgards history but also for upcoming events;

During the trailer, we have scenes from 2.55, specifically with Minfilia.
"Sacrifice, a final plea to her kin"
Yep... That just happened... Like really, Minfilia is even on screen for this... Is there any other way to interpret that?
"Yet this bond of hope, by treachery was broke
Scattering her words to the wind"
Looking forward to seeing how that manifests, then... Sacrificing Minfilia was bad, we shouldn't listen to Word of the Mother!
"Children of the land, answer this
Why must you turn to empty bliss
Tell me why break trust, why turn the past to dust
Seeking solace in the abyss
Tell me why create, a circle none can break
Why must you let go, the life you were bestowed
This I fear I'll never know
Never know"
Sticking with the whole there's no life without death theme, I'd bet this is aimed at Derplander and Co... Perhaps even some of the Scions who are taking recent events harder than others...

(*)Lets take stock of all the Crystals of Light we've seen;
We have six.
Matoya has one very old one.
Ysayle had one.

Now consider the dungeons we're getting... Pharos Sirius (Hard), Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)... Notice a pattern? Both the new dungeons 2.1 and 2.2 introduced respectively... If 3.3 introduced Hullbreaker Isle (Hard), that about proves it... Which leaves us with... Yep, you guessed it;

Snowcloak (Hard) in 3.4.
Keeper of the Lake (Hard) in 3.5.

Hmmm... An area heavily related to everyones favorite (Crystal of Light wielding) Ice Queen... And an area attributed as the wellspring of all aether on Hydaelyn... I wonder if we might be going to them for any particular reason... Collecting a Crystal of Light and restoring Hydaelyn with all of them... Needles to say, Relight my Fire is the new official theme for Keeper (Hard), can certainly see that being a quest title or achievement for it...

[Cilia]

But it's not like a debate here affects the outcome of anything. Mostly I'm just curious why people are so opposed the possibility that we're serving something that isn't quite what it says it is. Looking for answers sometimes means looking into possibilities you might not want to consider. But at this point I think it's something we need to be sure on before continuing any course, even the one we were on before.

Well, it doesn't, but it doesn't hurt to discuss things. What's more important to me is the effects it's having on the psyches of the characters - everyone close to Minfilia is breaking down, especially Thancred, to whom Minfilia was essentially a daughter figure. They are not in a good place right now. It's most apparent after Thancred decks Emmanellain, letting his facade down for just a moment with just two absolutely scathing lines.

As for why people don't want to question... it's easier. That's all.

[Fenral]

I'm honestly less concerned with Hydaelyn Herself, and more concerned with the conflict as a whole. Fighting to banish the darkness has never stood right with me, and if the cost in lives is going to continue to escalate, I'd rather know exactly what I'm supposed to be fighting for, since the "answers" we've gotten have been very one-sided and incomplete.

[CyrilLucifer]

That SE has been so secretive and slow in leaking information to players tells us straight out there's a lot more to the conflict than first appears. A lot more. The answers we have now are pretty much not answers at all.

[Theodric]

Well, it doesn't, but it doesn't hurt to discuss things. What's more important to me is the effects it's having on the psyches of the characters - everyone close to Minfilia is breaking down, especially Thancred, to whom Minfilia was essentially a daughter figure. They are not in a good place right now. It's most apparent after Thancred decks Emmanellain, letting his facade down for just a moment with just two absolutely scathing lines.

As for why people don't want to question... it's easier. That's all.

Thancred has become a much darker character as a whole. I predict that Yda and Papalymo will go down a similar path given their involvement in Ala Mhigan affairs. I'm hoping that Krile and Alphinaud will be the 'pure' characters and a voice of reason to balance it all out. Yet it's also possible that things will go terribly wrong and they'll be 'broken' too.

[CyrilLucifer]

I'm really excited to see how Thancred develops. This is just the thing he needed to stop from being stale. Y'shtola...well, not so much. I feel like SE is being too cautious with her, because Y'shtola is popular and XIV's mascot, and so they can't really do much to change her personality or risk hurting the mascot's popularity.

Alphinaud has worked damn hard for his 'purity,' making his mistakes and seeing his friends die, it's nice to see him resolved to stop it from happening again. He actually reminds me a lot of ToS Lloyd, who started off brash and not caring much about individual lives, but eventually grew into a softer, gentler, determined pacifist after watching (and causing) everyone around him die. While I am very fond of Yuri (the one Cilia is often quoting), I prefer Lloyd's character arc more, ToS also being a very relevant comparison to the Minfilia subject, as well.

[Cilia]

I'm honestly less concerned with Hydaelyn Herself, and more concerned with the conflict as a whole. Fighting to banish the darkness has never stood right with me, and if the cost in lives is going to continue to escalate, I'd rather know exactly what I'm supposed to be fighting for, since the "answers" we've gotten have been very one-sided and incomplete.

That's one of the biggest deals. It's been five years and change since the Calamity, and short of the shield from Ultima Hydaelyn has done nothing visible in the mortal plane. It seems that, for all we have done, Hydaelyn is only growing weaker... which leads to the question of whether or not she can regain power or be saved at all. We'll fight to the last even if it not, but... I don't really agree with purchasing another dawn for the world with lives.

There's also the fact that Light and Darkness are generally portrayed as being just as necessary as one another, which is why Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark (for extremely vague and arguably dubious reasons) is, according to Lahabrea, having negative effects on the world. We still don't have the whole story either, just Hydaelyn's brief and (undoubtedly) biased view. While I have no intention of giving up or joining the Ascians, we at least deserve to know the whole reason why we're fighting and if it's making any real difference.

[Alphinaud] actually reminds me a lot of ToS Lloyd, who started off brash and not caring much about individual lives, but eventually grew into a softer, gentler, determined pacifist after watching (and causing) everyone around him die. While I am very fond of Yuri (the one Cilia is often quoting), I prefer Lloyd's character arc more, ToS also being a very relevant comparison to the Minfilia subject, as well.

The Tales series in general rips apart the "heroic sacrifice" card, showing its effects on both the one to be sacrificed (generally has low self-worth outside that purpose) and on the people who care about them (they're devastated instead of the usual "honoring wishes and sacrifices" thing). The Symphonia sacrifice is much more relevant to what's happened here since the person to be sacrificed in Vesperia was a literal anathema to the world... it's just that Lloyd doesn't have any snappy lines that come to mind to refute the "sacrifices must be made for the greater good" crap people spout. The exchange I posted earlier also follows the "sacrifice" thing to its logical extreme - genocide on humanity to purchase another dawn for the world. Kinda relevant if sacrifices keep mounting up.

Unlike in Symphonia, though, we didn't have a chance to stop it from happening - the sacrifice was offscreen and entirely willing, and we currently have no clear way of setting things right.

[Nalien]

There's also the fact that Light and Darkness are generally portrayed as being just as necessary as one another, which is why Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark (for extremely vague and arguably dubious reasons) is, according to Lahabrea, having negative effects on the world.

Here's where I stop paying attention to the Ascians, though... Hydaelyn banished Zodiark. Banished.

Ascians are attempting to out right kill Hydaeyln. That has been their MO from the very start...

All this business about returning the world to how it once was strikes me as a deception... Nothing the Ascians have said or done indicates otherwise, or casts any doubt on Hydaelyns account of events... Light and Darkness are required? Perhaps that's why Zodiark was merely banished. The Ascians aren't attempting to restore that balance though, are they? They're attempting to extinguish Light.

Right now I see this as more of an abusive relationship... Zodiark beats Hydaelyn, so Hydaelyn kicks him out, and we're meant to question Hydaelyn over that? Zodiark then responds with out right death threats... Yeah... I'm not really seeing what the Ascians can say to change anything at this point... Will be interesting to hear, and I suspect we'll have something of a FFIX story going on (Hydaelyn has resulted in a world that will eventually die, Zodiark would attempt to prolong the life of his world at the expense of Hydaelyns, Elidibus will cosplay Kuja), but I can't see it changing my mind over anything...