PSA: Mentors can talk about anything they want in Novice Network - Discussion with GM

[Alahra]

In terms of keeping the channel effective, I've notice that sprouts only really ask questions if there's not a lot of chatter going on. So folks, you signed up to help people: be courteous and don't dominate the channel so that people feel they can interrupt to ask for help. That's what it's for. If you wanna have an idle chat channel, make a linkshell and invite the Mentors you like.

[WinterLuna]

In terms of keeping the channel effective, I've notice that sprouts only really ask questions if there's not a lot of chatter going on. So folks, you signed up to help people: be courteous and don't dominate the channel so that people feel they can interrupt to ask for help. That's what it's for. If you wanna have an idle chat channel, make a linkshell and invite the Mentors you like.

This is all well and good but kicking mentors for merely asking for help is clearly abusing their kicking rights. I'm a little annoyed that the OP has described the chat in such a way when it wasn't the case. A few people were spamming, not every person she kicked.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Part 1 of the reply

This is all well and good but kicking mentors for merely asking for help is clearly abusing their kicking rights. I'm a little annoyed that the OP has described the chat in such a way when it wasn't the case. A few people were spamming, not every person she kicked.

Hey Luna. I really stand by side cause that discussion wasn't fit. And the people i described were while i was on VA so i dint had time 2 kick em before someone else kicked me. And again as i said to the GM the person who kicked me should get the same punishment as me as it was not his/hers call to kick if we want to be fair. There is no where described you should kick someone was for kicking people. If it is unjust you can report it and ask a GM to look the logs. But kicking cause someone kicked another person is also abusing the system.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Part 2 of the reply ( i hate the 1000 character limitation)


And as you say spamming was happening. But the case was that GM had to chose 1 person unhappy vs how many people took offense from the kicks. If i was given the chance before the GM talk i would kick em again cause imo this kind of chat doesn't fit there. Since a GM basically said that anything goes as long it isnt directly harassing a player you can post anything you want.Ofc i will not kick anyone when i will be back and i will encourage people to discuss for anything they want. One way or another someone had to take it to extreme so we could know what SE's stance really is. But i hope you and other mentors will not be surprised when no sprouts will be at the NN and it will function as LS#9 cause if you were at the time you saw sprouts complaining how to turn off the chat and they were annoyed by the flooding.

[WinterLuna]

I think the kicks you made to the people talking about bard changes were justified but not the person who's name began with Z asking for help. He didn't spoil the story, he didn't spoil the strategy and he just asked for help. If we can't help each other even as mentors, what's the point?

[Kosmos992k]

By standing at this

You can post anything you want. Thats SE's stance.

That's an overly broad interpretation of the GM's comments, in my opinion.

So feel free to flood it with advertisements for FCs/ selling runs

Those would both qualify as spamming under any common definition of spamming.

and general anything goes as long it doesn't harass someone directly and you don't promote RMT services

I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. Based on what you posted the people you kicked were simply chatting about end-game melds. Again, based on what you posted, they were doing none of the things you mentioned above, other than generally chatting.

When i have 5 Mentors in the NN flooding it with discussion between them how is not considered spamming?

That's not what you described. you even used the word 'banter' to reference their discussion.

So much that i will miss the message of a sprout and i am forced to move NN to another tab so i can be able to see whats happening with the rest of the communities i participate in game. When there is 100 messages in the novice network from mentors and there was no message from sprout that may had initiated the discussion isn't that spamming?

No, it's not spamming, it's flooding. It's drowning out the signal in noise. It would be spam if they were simply reposting the same thing over and over and over. I have to point out to you that you did not say in your original post that the people you kicked were flooding the channel, you did say it was hard to see a sprout's request, but that's a common issue in any chat channel with a non-trivial number of users - it can be difficult to keep up. I've already stated that I think flooding should be bannable, but it's incredibly hard to prove the intent if several people are just chatting about something off topic. Sure, it's really inconsiderate of them, rude, and looks just like flooding, but is it flooding, or is it simply a case of people communicating enthusiastically about something and effectively flooding the channel without intending to?

You mention 5 others, so you kicked all 5? And surprisingly enough, since they were accused of spamming the network, which in their view, they weren't, and they complained about it. Suddenly you now have 5 complaints of unfair kicking on you, and each of them has a single potentially unfair kick from you against them. In that situation, unless they were obviously spamming, or obviously harassing others, how did you think it would go?

I am NOT disagreeing with what you are saying about the intent of the Novice Network. I'm not even disagreeing with you that these folks should have taken their chat elsewhere. I think the ban on you was harsh, and unfair, but I think the GM acted correct, and had no real choice. However, with the Novice network, mentors have the ability to moderate the channel to an extent. That means that you have to think about kicking people before you kick them. Is the kick justifiable? Could they rightly complain against me for the kick? Does what they were doing truly meet the definition of spamming or Harassment, which I can report each one for in any case? Could you have reported the players involved here if they had the same conversation anywhere else? Remember, you *can* report other users for Spamming or harassment on any linkshell, or other channel in the game. So, did their conduct meet that requirement? If not, you are applying a standard that goes beyond what SE stated.

I think the standard should be tighter on the Novice network as well. But the definition of kickable conduct is there in the patch notes. At the end of the day, what happened here is that you decided to apply the term spamming to a general conversation about end-game melding, you didn't simply report them for mis-using the channel, you kicked them from it.

And again as i said to the GM the person who kicked me should get the same punishment as me as it was not his/hers call to kick if we want to be fair.

The GM cannot and will not discuss discipline of other players with you, only your conduct/discipline.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Again part 1 cause of 1000 character limitation

@Kosmos: You can see Luna's comments for another view of what was happening in the NN at the time.

How is it broadly interpretation? It clearly states: "There are no restrictions apart on using it apart from the obvious harassment". So anything goes except harassing and RMT. Advertisements of any sort related to in game content it's not harassment however it's stuff that doesn't belong in NN like the discussion i kicked people for. Also by your definition i can flood the NN with it but i am not spamming it. And i can go as far as modify it every time so it's not the exact thing posted even if the message is the same so i will not post the exact same thing and be considered spam.

In the end it clearly show this is one more feature that failed to meet the expectations of the player base.

Also in game you can't report for spamming. There are options
A) Harassment
B) Bugs
C) RMT
D) Suggestions

[LisannaTargaryen]

Part 2
So anything else reported as harassment is also abusing the report system.

Also i agree that am at the wrong if that is the SE's stance on the usage of NN. But also it wasn't the other players job to kick me from the channel cause i kicked people and he should had received the same punishment as me.

Also i don't play the victim i posted it so other mentors will not repeat the same mistake. As i commented before this makes a precedent to be used as a future reference moving forward.

[LisannaTargaryen]

The GM cannot and will not discuss discipline of other players with you, only your conduct/discipline.

Now saw your edit. I know that this did not happened(issued warning). But again that my own saltiness and not the intent of the thread.

[SuperZay]

You are not moderator or gamemaster. Who gave you a right to kick people for anything other RMT spam or harassment? Let's not play a server god here.