Rest in peace War dps

[Syzygian]

Warrior's aggro generation being built into its highest damage combo is simply absurd compared to DRK and PLD and balancing these classes will forever be a nightmare so long as Warrior can maintain aggro and DPS with no sacrifices, whereas PLD and DRK need to lower their DPS to hold aggro.

Yeah, this is incredibly shitty. WARs design enables a style of play that every tank should be entitled to while DRK/PLD are given this arbitrary hurdle to jump that is independent of proper play or skill. You can say what you want about balancing tank mitigation or DPS or utility, but we should all be able to stance-dance either without penalty, or with the same penalty. WAR having this privilege is like giving a DRG the ability to live without dodging AoEs while telling NIN/MNK "tough shit, git gud and learn to dodge". In fact, now that I think of it, its the same flavor of shit as DRG's arbitrarily lower magic defense back in the day. Not implemented for any reason, just... uh... yeah, you just die more easily no matter what you do. DRK/PLD, you just have to gimp your DPS to hold aggro, sorry. Its a fundamental imbalance that arbitrarily punishes DRK/PLD for maximizing performance while handing the ability to do so to WAR on a platinum platter.

All tanks should have equal potential and ability to maximize their performance with equivalent hurdles to overcome or none at all. I'd call this an inalienable tank right. And it wouldn't require any nerf or buff to either of the three tanks, just a few potency swaps between their combos and bam, solved. This isn't me hating on WARs, its just saying we should have the same access to stance dancing that you do without having to downgrade to a suboptimal rotation. Its like if we told you you had to use SP to hold hate and couldn't BB.

Fix it SE.

[Februs]

In fact, now that I think of it, its the same flavor of shit as DRG's arbitrarily lower magic defense back in the day. Not implemented for any reason, just... uh... yeah, you just die more easily no matter what you do.

I remember this. Dying to magical dmg as a Drg went something along the lines of:

Drg: "Why am I the only one who died??"
Healer: "Cuz' you're a Drg."
Drg: "... whut? -_-' "

The current imbalance between the three tanks is the same. It is most certainly a problem. The bottom line is that no one should feel like their being punished for simply playing their preferred job, but that's exactly what happens whenever a Tank chooses to go as anything other than War. SE seems to have missed that memo, because they implemented a series of Tank adjustments that failed, yet again, to address any of the real issues that are currently plaguing the tanking community.

[Duelle]

Yeah, this is incredibly shitty. WARs design enables a style of play that every tank should be entitled to while DRK/PLD are given this arbitrary hurdle to jump that is independent of proper play or skill. You can say what you want about balancing tank mitigation or DPS or utility, but we should all be able to stance-dance either without penalty, or with the same penalty. WAR having this privilege is like giving a DRG the ability to live without dodging AoEs while telling NIN/MNK "tough shit, git gud and learn to dodge". In fact, now that I think of it, its the same flavor of shit as DRG's arbitrarily lower magic defense back in the day. Not implemented for any reason, just... uh... yeah, you just die more easily no matter what you do. DRK/PLD, you just have to gimp your DPS to hold aggro, sorry. Its a fundamental imbalance that arbitrarily punishes DRK/PLD for maximizing performance while handing the ability to do so to WAR on a platinum platter.

Well, let's take a couple of things into account. First that as much as I would want them to, the devs making major mechanic and design changes to jobs mid-expansion is unlikely. Hell, the WAR revamp was the product of extreme circumstances as it was, and I'm sure someone on the dev team said "never again".

Second, the damage is sort of done. Knowing the devs, they'll probably refrain from changing WAR because a) they don't want to make people mad (funny they decided to ignore this when they changed BRD), b) because it was a "clever" idea to make their design "unique" despite coming from an oversight that other dev teams would have squashed within the first couple of weeks of being discovered, and c) some people have grown used to it to the point they feel WAR should play that way.

The best the devs can do would be to retool the three tanks going into the next expansion and make things even. This is provided they stop with the "DPS = utility" bullshit and their other shenanigans. Ideally, leave swaps as part of WAR gameplay but tune things so that DPS output and utility is equal to that of PLD and DRK.

[Ragology]

You can say what you want about balancing tank mitigation or DPS or utility, but we should all be able to stance-dance either without penalty, or with the same penalty. WAR having this privilege is like giving a DRG the ability to live without dodging AoEs while telling NIN/MNK "tough shit, git gud and learn to dodge".


Fix it SE.

DRK and PLD have a penalty for stance dancing because their stances activate immediately while WAR's does not.

First I'll explain how the stances work (for those who don't know)

DRK and PLD get a 20% incoming damage reduction while WAR gets 25% more hp. Lets say that all three tanks have 100 base HP and then turn on their tank stances.

PLD 100 HP
WAR 125 HP
DRK 100 HP

And now a mob throws 5 rocks at them, doing 25 damage each.

Since PLD and DRK get damage reduced, the rocks only do 20 damage to them. They will be killed in exactly 5 hits. (20 x 5 = 100)

WAR takes the full 25 Damage, also dying in 5 hits. (25 x 5 = 125)

In this case, the stances are equal.

Now lets say all three tanks were fighting as off tanks but have decided to provoke and tank swap.

PLD and DRK are at their 100 HP base and ready to to go already. WAR on the other hand is stuck at 100 until it gets a heal since switching to tank stance increases the health pool without filling it.

If the same mob decides to hurl 25 damage rocks at them, PLD and DRK can take 5 hits before dying while WAR would be killed by the 4th rock. (25 x 4= 100)

In short, making sheild oath and Grit as convenient as Defiance would turn it into an extra 20% damage reduction ability with unlimited uptime and short cooldown.

[Syzygian]

stuff

Yes, these are all things that I know.

Read my post again; .. When i was referring to ease of stance dancing i was talking about the ability to continue to use your optimal rotation regardless of stance, (which WAR can, the other two can't), not whether the stances are oGCD or not.

[Ragology]

Yes, these are all things that I know.

Read my post again; .. When i was referring to ease of stance dancing i was talking about the ability to continue to use your optimal rotation regardless of stance, (which WAR can, the other two can't), not whether the stances are oGCD or not.

Oh that's different, my mistake.

I'm not sure how to fix that one.