Tank Gear's Value for the Future.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Melded jewelery can have 2.

However, the point is that the balance of VIT vs STR is important now because you have to fins enough stat budget to boost both. So it depends entirely on how the gear shakes out going forwards. Personally I think that they should have put a weighting of 0.5 on VIT and 0.45 on STR because the difficulty of gaining an optimal amount of both at the same time is not trivial. Your math is wrong because you are assuming things we do not know.

We do know that SE will be watching the logs and checking tank DPS in particular to ensure that the balance hasn't shifted more than intended. If the balance has shifted too far, then expect to see adjustments to the weighting of the stats in the damage calculation.

So basicly tanks have to "pay" to be as good as other classes. However no other class has to do that?

[LionFranco]

Yup, Nek's math is still wrong...so sad.

[therpgfanatic]

I just hope you know that PLD got buffed in relation to the other tanks but tank damage across the board got nerfed. A brief look in the reddit link and you will see the DMG difference to a DRK in ShO(compared to Grit) dropped from 25% to 12% or something and SwO(compared to no Grit) from 8% to 4%.

You seem to be trying really hard to ignore the fact that in the example parsers, the PLD went from 677.97 to 571.23, while his DRK in the same freakin gear only went from 1030.44 to 851.41.

Again.

DRK 851.41

PLD 571.23

Do you not understand the freakin problem here??

Anyone who claims PLD was buffed should just slap themselves. Seriously, just slap yourself. PLD was supposed to be put on par with DRK and WAR, and the gap between them is still rather enormous. There's absolutely no way to justify this difference since tank mitigation is pretty equal.

[FallenWings]

You seem to be trying really hard to ignore the fact that in the example parsers, the PLD went from 677.97 to 571.23, while his DRK in the same freakin gear only went from 1030.44 to 851.41.

Again.

DRK 851.41

PLD 571.23

Do you not understand the freakin problem here??

Anyone who claims PLD was buffed should just slap themselves. Seriously, just slap yourself. PLD was supposed to be put on par with DRK and WAR, and the gap between them is still rather enormous. There's absolutely no way to justify this difference since tank mitigation is pretty equal.

DRK:
1030 to 850 is more or less -17%

PLD:
960 to 820 is more or less -14%

Pre 3.2
1030(DRK) to 960(PLD) is more or less 6-7% difference

Post 3.2
850(DRK) to 820(PLD) is more or less 3-4% difference.


EDIT: I just remembered how to calculate into percentage. It's (DIFFERENCE/TOTAL)*100 RIGHT?!

[Eidolon]

Snip

Nothing ever brings a tear to my eye like watching Nek basically get completely decimated by obvious logic and math. c:

[Mycow8me]

The DRKs average DPS with the vit build from the parse was 764.6 before the patch. (darkside/ no grit)
The DRKs average DPS with the vit build from the parse was 842.6 after the patch. (darkside/ no grit)

The PLD average DPS with vit build from the parse was 493 before the patch. (Shield oath)
The PLD average DPS with vit build from the parse was 599 after patch. (shield oath)

The PLD average DPS with vit build from the parse was 692 before patch. (Sword Oath)
The PLD average DPS with vit build from the parse was 804 after patch. (Sword Oath)

If you compare the STR builds, you will see drops regardless of class.

We don't know the Ilvl differences between the two but if you compare them, you should use sword oath parse because the DRK parse is darkside only, no grit.
The gap is literally 842-804 difference between the DRK and PLD.

... I think your wet noodle got upgraded.

[therpgfanatic]

@FallenWings:

If PLD's tanked in Sword Oath then you might have a point.

You quoted Sword Oath numbers. Likely on purpose, cause it supports your argument, even though it is obvious to anyone that PLD cannot tank in Sword Oath. DRK can tank while Darkside is active.

@Mycow8me: Unlike PLD, DRK's do not need to be in Grit (their defensive / enmity boost stance) in order to tank. Their rotation is built around picking up and dropping grit as needed, whereas PLD must stay in Shield Oath the entire time because the DPS issue (especially lack of AoE) causes enmity issues. Without Shield Oath, Flash is basically useless and without flash a PLD simply cannot tank trash or pick up adds that spawn during boss encounters.

DRK experiences no issue like this, and they are actually designed to drop Grit to use key abilities used while tanking.

[FallenWings]

1. PLD can tank in Sword Oath. It may be harder to hold hate but y'know, your co-tank and NINs exist. WAR? Unchained+Berserk. DRK? DRK. I honestly don't know what they do other than pure damage after the first two PS.
2. OT exists.
3. What are you suggesting? PLD ShO does equal to DRK no Grit? And then DRK still eats -20% with Grit on?
4. New patch. For all we know it's probably gonna be alot harder to even hold hate outside of tank stance with the DPS nerf. PLD's Savage Blade(which is also in RA combo) enmity got buffed for a little extra(though needed) sprinkling. ShO Damage penalty got reduced to -15% vs Grit(-20%). GB and RA potency buffs.

[therpgfanatic]

1. PLD can tank in Sword Oath. It may be harder to hold hate but y'know, your co-tank and NINs exist.

Heaven forbid that PLD be considered an equally useful MT instead of an OT for when you can't find a DRK.

3. What are you suggesting? PLD ShO does equal to DRK no Grit? And then DRK still eats -20% with Grit on?

I suggest the developers get over whatever peculiar disdain they have for the PLD class and balance it with the other two tanks, starting with giving PLD a proper AoE attack to replace Flash which is 100% of the problem.

[Kosmos992k]

So basicly tanks have to "pay" to be as good as other classes. However no other class has to do that?

::rolls eys at myself::
I was walking back from a meeting when I realized that I made an error in my math because I included accessories on each half of my calculation for PLD. This was obviously wrong. So, I'll yank the remainder of this post and rework the math (unless of course someone else already has).

My apologies for my bad math.

Based on the current Stat weightings of STR & VIT (0.45 per point of each) vs a DD with STR = AP, I calculated the total stat budgets of 3 sets of gear. including weapons, armor and accessories. Tank was PLD with all Fending, DRG was DRG with all Slaying. Using the DRG set as the 'baseline' for the calculations we get...

Dravinian + Hive weapons (ilvl 200-ish)
PLD (715 STR + 735 VIT) * 0.45 = 652.5 AP
DRG 710 STR = 710 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.92

Gordian (ilvl 210)
PLD (789 STR + 821 VIT) * 0.45 = 724.5 AP
DRG 779 STR = 779 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.93

Top tier 3.2 (ilvl 245)
PLD (1044 STR + 1108 VIT) * 0.45 = 968.4 AP
DRG 1019 STR = 1019 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.95

Actually, far from losing, it seems that the top tier gear in 3.2 brings tank DPS potential up towards that of a DD.

You so blinded by your outrage that you utterly neglect to count the VIT *and* STR you get. Even with the 0.45 multiplier on both STR and VIT, the gap vs plain strength narrows as ilvl increases. Oh and one other thing, it's demonstrable that using slaying accessories will actually reduce your DPS potential now.

Also, if we had a 0.9 multiplier on our STR to AP calculation and went all STR, we would lose even more DPS, with the Gordian Set, for example, going from a 0.95 of base to a flat 0.9 of base. Blending VIT and STR was the way to go. Going all VIT with a 0.9 multiplier would leave our AP too high relative to DD jobs like DRG.

The correction is here.

Either way, the point I was making was that Nektulos-Tuor appears to be failing to count the VIT on accessories, and calculating it in such a way that the total stat budget for tanks is not in play.