Why can't you see your stats when you finish dung/raids and trials?

[Andrea]

But a full on status screen after a dungeon run? No. The day that happens is the day I hang up my shield and cry in a corner."

See, Im the opposite of this. I welcome some way of showing who isn't pulling their weight.

If when the results pop up in the players example and you see clearly that your dps is way behind others, shouldn't you use that as motivation to improve?

I get that a very small population will most likely abuse it. But the majority of people that would abuse it are already doing this with parsers anyway.

I don't understand why we wouldn't add something that may most likely help some people get the motivation to improve just because of a few toxic idiots

[Whiteroom]

See, Im the opposite of this. I welcome some way of showing who isn't pulling their weight.

If when the results pop up in the players example and you see clearly that your dps is way behind others, shouldn't you use that as motivation to improve?

I get that a very small population will most likely abuse it. But the majority of people that would abuse it are already doing this with parsers anyway.

I don't understand why we wouldn't add something that may most likely help some people get the motivation to improve just because of a few toxic idiots

I guess some people perfer "ignorance is bliss" and wiping, over improvement and clearing.

[Torunya]

snip

If I was playing a MOBA, I would expect nothing less than a status rundown of everyone's contribution at the end. As is expected in almost any form of PvP. I frankly don't see how adding this feature to an MMORPG in PvE can do anything other than harm. In doing so, anyone not performing to certain standards will be excluded and unwanted by the community. It borders on the very often-mentioned elitism topic, in which that introducing such a system in PvE will allow the few "toxic idiots" free reign to call out anyone's dps. Now if we're going to talk about self-improvement, that's another thing. If you read my initial post you'll see that I mentioned both SSS and parsing as a valid means of measurement to anyone who wants to better their own skills. The tools are there to any player who is genuinely interested in becoming better, and SSS will only make that even easier.

But I feel this involves a certain level of privacy issues, as I would imagine many players are quite defensive about their performance. Especially if it ends up being wanting. Try comparing this scenario to a test in school: Would you rather everyone's grades were put up on a bulletin board for all to see, or would you want to recieve the test back individually and only share your grade with others if you so desired? The school system where I'm from advocates the latter, and I think it grants the people who don't perform as well a chance to improve on their own accord without the added unnecessary audience.

In the end you'll always have people who honestly couldn't care less about their performance, that's reality. But I think that pulling everyone into the limelight of the stage is not the answer, and will in fact end up being more destructive than constructive.

[Andrea]

In the end you'll always have people who honestly couldn't care less about their performance, that's reality. But I think that pulling everyone into the limelight of the stage is not the answer, and will in fact end up being more destructive than constructive.

Will you get some people that will exclude you from their stuff with this system? yes of course you will but as stated above the majority of them are already doing that with parsers anyway. And to be honest, If people are excluding you for average DPS numbers then those people are the type you don't want to be in a duty with anyway.

If people don't care how they perform to put it bluntly they shouldn't be in the queue to begin with.

Why should others have to perform even better to compensate for a player who in your own words " couldn't care less about their performance"?

Sure I could kick them but they don't improve or learn anything from that. Sure I could try to give them advice, to be yet again met with "I pay so i'll play how i want" or .." Worry about yourself instead of me"

I am willing to bet the majority of players will not even visit SSS even once. And even if they did and didn't pass most wouldn't even care to try to improve.

I personally would have more motivation to improve my DPS if i knew that come the end of the dungeon everyone could see it. Who knows I may be crazy and it may just be me.

So yh if a parser was in game there would be even more BLMs... I mean DPS just completely ignoring every mechanics just to "prove" their Epeen is longer.

Of course some would care for just their DPS numbers, as you said people already do. But to make a claim of "everyone who uses parsers just cares about DPS numbers" then that just makes you look stupid.

If you notice people are not doing mechanics simply say to them. Just because they have the highest numbers doesn't make them untouchable.

The point of a parser or a score is to help you improve. If you want to bluff yourself and ignore every mechanic to try and tell yourself you're improving so be it. You are just as bad as the player that does A real reborn DPS numbers at 60.

And I will state, I know of far more players myself that ignore mechanics and do not use parsers. Does that mean all non parsers are the same? of course not.

[Telsyr]

I would like to point out that I do not care either way if a stat/parser is added, it will not make or break my game. I'm just nosy.

~snip~

May I ask YOU a hypothetical question?

Let's say that instead of adding SSS they added detailed stats at the end at the end of the dungeon.. BUT anyone at anytime could get the choice to opt in and out of any part this said program, including options to both disable your own stats displayed to other people, other peoples stats displayed to you, and the popup that would show up at the end. These options also default to off. (I am also aware that most people will claim these options would also defeat the purpose of said program.)

How would you feel about it then?

[Andrea]

How would you feel about it then?

Personally I'd be fine with that myself. This unlike SSS forces you too acknowledge your own DPS numbers as you kinda have to do duties in the game. It would show you before leaving a duty if you did good that run or if you did not so well and need to improve.

I also feel that if people opt out of showing their result for that run they shouldn't be able to see anyones numbers. Even if others opt in they shouldn't see. If you aren't willing to show yours then you don't get to see others numbers.

[Telsyr]

I also feel that if people opt out of showing their result for that run they shouldn't be able to see anyones numbers. Even if others opt in they shouldn't see. If you aren't willing to show yours then you don't get to see others numbers.

You make a fine point, and this is now one of the conditions of the question.

[Whiteroom]

Personally I'd be fine with that myself. This unlike SSS forces you too acknowledge your own DPS numbers as you kinda have to do duties in the game. It would show you before leaving a duty if you did good that run or if you did not so well and need to improve.

I also feel that if people opt out of showing their result for that run they shouldn't be able to see anyones numbers. Even if others opt in they shouldn't see. If you aren't willing to show yours then you don't get to see others numbers.

Tbh her suggestion is almost pointless due to process of elimination. Very quickly people will figure out what it takes to clear a run at what speed, so they will have a rough idea of who is contributing what. For example, it becomes know that each dps needs to do roughly 1000 dps to clear a check, 3 dps do 1100 but the check is still not cleared. The fourth did not show their stats, but it is already proven they did less than 700.

It would only help if multiple people opted out. But then, I always see the flaw in that suggestion being that those toxic people that the crowd against parsers is terrified of would only zero in on people who disabled it. And not that I'm for harassment, but from what a lot of the same people have posted in the past, they would be most likely on the right track. A lot of those totally against parsers are they same ones supporting the "I pay a sub, so I play how I want, and the rest of the team doesn't matter" play style.

[Telsyr]

Still, anyone opting out of this system would be thrown under a lot of suspicion by default for not 'showing' their performance.

I had not fully thought of this possibility, Hrm. Thank you for your timely response.

---

While I had not intended it to be a suggestion, I do appreciate your feedback. I would however like to point out that its not entirely impossible to do that now without a parser. Thank you, Andrea, for your input as well.

As for some advice: From what it seems, its pretty unlikely for Pro-Parsers to get what they actually want. From the answers I got some of you on both sides seems more than willing to compromise, you may not get what you want at first, but hey gotta start somewhere.

and on my way out: How many people in-game, across all regions, actually know what a parser is? Numbers might surprise both sides! Bye all!

[Andrea]

and on my way out: How many people in-game, across all regions, actually know what a parser is? Numbers might surprise both sides! Bye all!

This. You would be surprised by the amount of people who are against parsers when asked what they do just simply say, they show numbers.

Im not saying all people against parsers don't understand what they do, but a fair few do.