New Prelim Tank updates

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

It just seems like the same core problems between the tanks haven't gone anywhere. If anything its worse now b/c DRK and PLD will be at each other's throats for that MT slot, while WAR looks on wondering wtf is wrong with them.

And this is why I was most excited about tank gear being universal. I can bounce between DRK/PLD much sooner in this patch cycle than I was able to last time.

Oh yeah and... Has anyone noticed that the tank stances having increased enmity to make up for the damage nerf is likely going to indirectly make it harder to tank out of tank stance? Wonder how that will play out.

Just guessing, but I am still in the boat that tank damage isn’t getting completely nerfed. I am hoping this means that I can build a bigger lead while in tank stance, so the BB WAR won’t catch up quite so quickly.

[Reynhart]

Cover is an awesome skill, really. But it needs to cover for magic damage as well if it intends to get used more, in my opinion.

Jump is DRG's signature ability
Cover is PLD's signature ability

We should be able to Cover as often as DRG can jump and in multiple ways, too.

[karateorangutang]

Jump is DRG's signature ability
Cover is PLD's signature ability

We should be able to Cover as often as DRG can jump and in multiple ways, too.

Agreed, the problem with cover isnt the ability itself, it's the fact that the game meta shys away from strats that would obviously favor a single class. It would be cool if cover did something like negate positionals for DPS for the time it was activated since the theory behind positionals is catching a mob in a weak spot or even just to share FoF. That would keep with a sort of sharing theme and be beneficial for party DPS without making PLD feel like a damage dealer.

Not saying this in particular, but cover could be used for tons of things.

[Grey_D94]

With Clemency and Divine Veil, their ability as an OT is even better considering they can end up putting a forcefield over the entire party (should they be in range), just like the actual Healers (Sacred Soil, Collective Unconscious, Stoneskin series), just by healing themselves or due to an observant Healer, until Divine Veil wears off. Also, Divine Veil now has a shorter recast timer (30s cut off of what it used to be), which means it may get more use in the raid scene as well.

With RA and GB getting potency buffs, and ShO losing some of its damage penalty, no, we PLD\\'s still may not be doing as much damage as your WAR\\'s as an OT, but we do provide a decent damage decrease for the MT and potentially the rest of the party. Please, pardon me for sounding somewhat proud of that.

(Sorry. Mobile doesn't let us edit.)

[Astrelle_hyperion]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Cover is awesome, and in a few instance super useful. However because it's single job they can't design encounters to require it. It's the most tank utility thing out there, IMO. As much as I like it being a PLD signature, I'd rather it be a tank signature and more used. It feels more like being a tank.

Earthshaker cheese in t13, or bash in vault were nice, etc

[Reynhart]

Cover is awesome, and in a few instance super useful. However because it's single job they can't design encounters to require it. It's the most tank utility thing out there, IMO. As much as I like it being a PLD signature, I'd rather it be a tank signature and more used. It feels more like being a tank.

I really thinks it fits "PLD" more than "tanks."
Like Hallowed Ground, Cover is a way to bypass some mechanics, and that makes the job really fun to play. Earthshaker and Holy Shield Bash are two great examples, I'd really like to be able to pop Cover for every one of them. Stealing a debuff stack in Titan EX was fun too.

I'd also like if Sheltron was made a "AoE" block, something like "The next physical attack within 5y is automatically blocked" This way, you could intercept an attack and proc a Shield Swipe even if you're not the target.

[Fernosaur]

Snip

To be fair, most times that a shield is needed the bosses are either untargetable (primal ultimates) or far away, for example certain instances of Thordan's Dragon's Rage. It is definitely not damage efficient, but it has a more personal use that you can actually time yourself instead of relying on healers, since Assize and Indomitability don't really activate DV when the cast time is more pressing for them. And since DV is a 30 second "buff" you can set it up and just time it yourself in place of Succor, Aspected Helios or Sacred Soil.

I'm not saying it's an amazing skill, and I think it's somewhat unnecessary (although tbh shields are never useless for heavy raidwide damage, re:Thordan phase 8 or A4S) but it's definitely MUCH better now than it was vanilla. If the range was much wider (who wants to be close to the tank besides the melee anyways?) and the recast timer was even lower I think it would make it pretty great. IMO it's not strong enough to warrant a 2 minute cooldown. Although, now that full Vit is the way to go... 2500 worth of shields is almost as much as an Adloquium at 210. It can be a decent extra mitigation tool for tank busters bringing PLD as OT, kinda like Cover was for the 4th or 5th Akh Morn back in the day.

Also, let's be honest, our cross class skills save Foresight and SS are garbage. At least one of them has a tangible use now lmao

[Syzygian]

Just guessing, but I am still in the boat that tank damage isn’t getting completely nerfed. I am hoping this means that I can build a bigger lead while in tank stance, so the BB WAR won’t catch up quite so quickly.

Can't be bothered to find the link at the moment but its been stated that it officially is getting nerfed, and thats the whole reason why all the tank stances' enmity is getting boost and not just PLD

[Februs]

Oh yeah and... Has anyone noticed that the tank stances having increased enmity to make up for the damage nerf is likely going to indirectly make it harder to tank out of tank stance? Wonder how that will play out.

Just guessing, but I am still in the boat that tank damage isn’t getting completely nerfed. I am hoping this means that I can build a bigger lead while in tank stance, so the BB WAR won’t catch up quite so quickly.

This is something that Pld's have been dealing with since ... well, forever. Even progression Pld's in early savage raids were forced to stay in tank stance longer than was optimal because their enmity multiplier was so awful. Pld's are very accustomed to having difficulties tanking outside of their tank stance.

I have a feeling that is the reason they buffed Savage Blade and not RoH. Pld's are now (hopefully) able to sustain enmity while using their Royal Authority Combo instead of RoH while cycling Sword Oath for every FoF. That way, once they establish a lead on the target, swapping to a RA rotation won't immediately damn them to losing enmity to the stronger potency hits of Drk's and War's (especially War's).

Drk's have a similar problem (though not nearly as pronounced) because their strongest combo (outside of Dark Arts) is Delirium Blade, which offers no enmity bonus whatsoever. That said, Drk's at least had the advantage of being able to establish a lead on their enmity. Given that the stance change is limited to simply "not canceling the combo bonus," I don't think anything will really change here for Drk enmity.

Pld's and Drk's should be relatively equal for how much of a lead they can establish now (I hope). Unfortunately, War's still might be a problem due to their OT Butcher's Block combo having such a high potency. That said, if Tank dmg is being universally lowered across the board, then I don't think it will be a problem. If Drk's could hold out against them before, they should be able to hold out against them now. Pld's will be the real wild card, since we don't know if the enmity adjustment to Savage Blade will be "enough."

[Galgarion]

Also with these changes, calling highest DPS combo is going to be WAR mt Paladin OT

This is exactly the mindset that needs to be drowned like an unwanted kitten. With these buffs, no group will ever be forced to pick a DRK over a Pally or vice versa. That's parity, baby.