Is FFXIV viable as an MMORPG without doing end-game & raiding?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

What's with this almost holier-than-thou, "I don't raid, so ha!" sense in some of the statements here? It needs to be said that endgame does not equal raids alone. Yoshi P said it himself once: endgame is a broad spectrum for FFXIV. Glamour, housing, crafting and gathering, all of it comprises endgame. Zeroing in on raiding and all but demonizing it is rather shortsighted and not terribly fair.

In fairness, I enjoy raiding perhaps second to glamour. (I change glams like I change underwear. Most often, it IS my underwear. Don't judge me :P) I enjoy most aspects of endgame, but none more so than raiding, and I'm far from server/world first-caliber. This makes it no more or less valid than other aspects of endgame; it's simply what I and several friends enjoy the most. Mileage varies among players, and knowing that, SE delivers various things under the banner of endgame.

I suppose it'd be best to say with the game's design and offerings, enjoyment at endgame is what you make of it.

[Kosmos992k]

What's with this almost holier-than-thou, "I don't raid, so ha!" sense in some of the statements here?

No "Holier than thou" from me, I'm quite clear that I am not a raider. For various real life reasons I haven't been able to stay completely current with content, despite playing since beta phase 3. I would probably be a 'casual' raider if life hadn't got in the way.

I very, very specifically do not want this to become one of those threads where two polarized groups call each other names because one group likes raiding and the other doesn't.

It needs to be said that endgame does not equal raids alone. Yoshi P said it himself once: endgame is a broad spectrum for FFXIV. Glamour, housing, crafting and gathering, all of it comprises endgame. Zeroing in on raiding and all but demonizing it is rather shortsighted and not terribly fair.

That's a good point. I guess I was falling into the trap a lot of people do where end-game and Raiding are nearly synonymous. However there is no demonizing, as I said in my previous post, SE needs to be careful in their handling of raiding in the game, careful in the sense of handling things well and keeping raiders happy. I'm talking about end-game being the current raid(s), HM dungeons and EX primals. I'm trying not to quantify in terms of ilvl or anything like that because I don't think that matters. The concept of end-game content in an MMORPG is pretty clear - the latest and hardest battle content - even if Yoshi wants to muddy the waters by including other things. In truth, many of the other things he may have mentioned as 'end-game' do not require the skill that end-game battle content and raids require. The result is that those things are far more accessible and I wasn't thinking of them as 'end-game' in this discussion.

In fairness, I enjoy raiding perhaps second to glamour. (I change glams like I change underwear. Most often, it IS my underwear. Don't judge me :P) I enjoy most aspects of endgame, but none more so than raiding, and I'm far from server/world first-caliber. This makes it no more or less valid than other aspects of endgame; it's simply what I and several friends enjoy the most. Mileage varies among players, and knowing that, SE delivers various things under the banner of endgame.

SE delivers several things under the banner of End-game. Based on the content itself, the only areas of the game that can be considered end-game would be the current Raid(s) and EX primals, along with craft specialization and related gathering. Other things such as Housing, gardening, etc are all things that have been in the game long enough that they are no longer on that leading edge, and are far more accessible to the general player base. The one caveat being Housing, it's 'accessible' unless you're on a high population server and can't get a home for love nor money of course. SE say they are doing things to fix Housing, so let's leave that discussion to a Housing topic.

I suppose it'd be best to say with the game's design and offerings, enjoyment at endgame is what you make of it.

110% agreed.

I wasn't trying to create an us vs. them discussion. Which brings me back to my question at the end of my last post;

Can they(SE) tailor content to each part of the community without hurting the other?

[RiceisNice]

No "Holier than thou" from me, I'm quite clear that I am not a raider. For various real life reasons I haven't been able to stay completely current with content, despite playing since beta phase 3. I would probably be a 'casual' raider if life hadn't got in the way.

I very, very specifically do not want this to become one of those threads where two polarized groups call each other names because one group likes raiding and the other doesn't.

It was more directed in the general replies on this topic (and really, the forums in general)

. IMO it's just really not a good mindset to have since you're essentially telling people "you're playing this game wrong", when said game is built around the concept of a themepark with some sandbox aspects, and that the players are infact, genuinely getting bored because of how content is being designed/released.

Can they(SE) tailor content to each part of the community without hurting the other?

In a nutshell, they can. The problem I feel is that they aren't doing a very good job of doing because they're falling short of almost every content they've introduced. The new players are enjoying the game for the reasons we enjoyed 2.0, not 3.0. All the added-on content from 3.0 and onward has bit messy at best (Diadem, LoV, 2 dungeons per cycle). As someone who did expert roulette/coinflip everyday, I've noticed a significant decrease of lasting power in the expert dungeons, whether it be because of the fact it's only two for a roulette cycle, or that it's boring boss/mob mechanics throughout (it's both in some cases), and gets more exasperated as the gear scaling increases because of how undertuned it gets. It may also be just me, but I also feel there's been an incredible disconnect between the developers and players. I find myself disagreeing more with Yoshida's liveletter and interview points more than acknowledging or even maintain a neutral stance about it.

It's not perfect, but it's a circle of life easily replicated by the community as a whole, thus making endgame an almost self-sustaining thing, even with the human variables.

It can also go both ways. If I can't find a reason to log in, my friends and most likely some static members are gonna drop the game collectively and probably not come back until after the release of 4.0, if ever. But like I mentioned, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm frustrated and don't agree with a lot of the design points and viewpoints of the developers, and almost feels that they've lost sight of what made the game good (not to mentioned all the dropped talks about housing, egi glamours, and numerous other things that have fallen into purgatory.) Players are a finite resource for the game, and no amount of new recruits via a revolving door design is going to help if the retention isn't good enough.