What Jobs would you like to see in the next Expansion

[Reynhart]

To expand, MMO mechanic recquire a job or class that allow damage to be centralized and a way to mitigate that incoming damage. JRPG's have no such strat.

Well, that's wrong.

It's easy to find recent games where emity is a thing, even in Final Fantasy. FF XIII with the Sentinel role, FF XII with the Decoy skill, FF X with the Provoke ability...
You could go even further with all the Cover like abilities. In fact, while showing the origin of Calacabrina to my girlfriend (To understand the reference of patch 3.2), I've found a low level FFIV run where the player kept every one at critical HP to ensure that any physical attack will be targeted at Cecil.
And the recent 3D version of FF III also gave Provoke to the Viking Job.

As for Mitigation, Guard is also an old skill in FF, and FF III pushed this even further by allowing a character to dual wield shields.

I'm just pointing out that in a MMO setting, where a mage class can equip any kind of armor, that is then usually a defense minded mage.

Yes, most mages only get robes. But switching to "Mages are not frontline characters because they only wear robes" to "RDM is the tank because he can wear light armor" is, maybe, skipping a step.

In addition to that RDM has a sword and a buckler, something that seems to scream a parry fencer in theme.

To wear a shield, all you need is a one-handed weapon. It's sad to assume that having a one-handed weapon will automatically make you a tank.

In almost any JRPG it's more beneficial to gear ATK then DEF

Do you realize, that, for now, FFXIV follows that idea as much as it can ?

Also, we don't have temper. Classes can raise their own attack power, ninja can create a small window of vulnerability. Noone can create a true attack power boost on another character though.

Yes, we don't have a proper "Temper"...that's what I said when I mentionned "self targeted only". But giving the ability to increase the target's attack power would exactly be something new and valuable.

I just don't see how it could be a DPS and not the other two roles. It's a conundrum that belies the entire theme of the class itself. Although I believe I'm repeating this point.

Yes, you are. And I'll also repeat myself. Tanks are already pretty hard to balance, since the game lacks complexity. Having a tank that can survive, do damage, and heal will, again, make it a direct contender with PLD.
(And if you look at FF history, those jobs are indeed pretty close to each other, by both being "Frontline jobs that can heal")
And since survival is automatically enough and healing is not meaningful (for a tank), then the tank that will be excluded will be the one that deals less damage, be it RDM or PLD.

[Mimilu]

The strange part upon this is that...I really don't care wether RDM makes its way in the game or not. It's just my view on the job if we eventually have it.

Oh yes, the several pages full of your rants speak to your indifference on the subject. >w>

[Reynhart]

Oh yes, the several pages full of your rants speak to your indifference on the subject. >w>

Wow, I got chills seeing how successful you seem to be reading my mind...

At least I try to keep my ideas close to what RDM had been, not just using to name on whatever job they might throw at me.

[karateorangutang]

I unfortunately don't have alot of time to answer all the points you did so I'll answer the ones that are the most relevant.

It's easy to find recent games where emity is a thing, even in Final Fantasy. FF XIII with the Sentinel role, FF XII with the Decoy skill, FF X with the Provoke ability...
You could go even further with all the Cover like abilities. In fact, while showing the origin of Calacabrina to my girlfriend (To understand the reference of patch 3.2), I've found a low level FFIV run where the player kept every one at critical HP to ensure that any physical attack will be targeted at Cecil.
And the recent 3D version of FF III also gave Provoke to the Viking Job.

Half of this comment is either something that wasn't intended in the game structure, or was applied in an update to the game. I'm sorry but i'll rephrase then. Classic JRPG's.

As for Mitigation, Guard is also an old skill in FF, and FF III pushed this even further by allowing a character to dual wield shields.

Guess I'm confused how this relates to its corresponding comment. Yes... guard is old. So is parry.

Yes, most mages only get robes. But switching to "Mages are not frontline characters because they only wear robes" to "RDM is the tank because he can wear light armor" is, maybe, skipping a step.

I just disagree here, mages with buff spells and light armor could be more than durable, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree here.

Do you realize, that, for now, FFXIV follows that idea as much as it can ?

I'm having a calm debate with you. I don't why you would think I'm ignorant of the game meta.

(And if you look at FF history, those jobs are indeed pretty close to each other, by both being "Frontline jobs that can heal")[/I]
And since survival is automatically enough and healing is not meaningful (for a tank), then the tank that will be excluded will be the one that deals less damage, be it RDM or PLD.

Again, I'm well aware of the mechanics and state of the game. I've stated before that I doubt we will see another tank in the next expansion. Probably a melee DPS, ranged caster DPS, and a melee caster DPS of some variety. Again RDM is bait, it's a terrible idea to implement in this game as evidenced by the huge threads debating what it should be, but the fact that people talk about it is good for SE. There's solid arguments for nearly every single role possible due the the flexible nature of the class. It could literally be anything... and as such is guaranteed to be a disappointment to 2/3's of the people that have memories of one iteration of RDM or another. I don't see how the implementation of this class in any form is a good idea.

As for PLD... we'll just have to wait and see what's in store for 3.2.

[Reynhart]

Half of this comment is either something that wasn't intended in the game structure, or was applied in an update to the game. I'm sorry but i'll rephrase then. Classic JRPG's.

The only "update" was "Provoke for Viking". All the rest was in those games from the beginning. I can add that, in FF II, being in the back row prevented you from being targeted by physical attacks, and that, in the Dragon Quest series (Starting from III) the order of the party have a great influence on the odds of being targeted.
You can't really be more Classic JRPG-esque

Guess I'm confused how this relates to its corresponding comment. Yes... guard is old. So is parry.

No, I'm talking about Guard (or Defend) as a skill that reduces (Or even negates) physical damage. It's an active mitigation skill starting in FF III.

It could literally be anything... and as such is guaranteed to be a disappointment to 2/3's of the people that have memories of one iteration of RDM or another.

On that we'll just agree to...well, agree. But I'm not sure being sure to disappoint people is enough to prevent them from doing it, judging by the tease. That's also why I wouldn't mind if RDM does not make its way into the game.

[Kaeoni]

Wow, I got chills seeing how successful you seem to be reading my mind...

At least I try to keep my ideas close to what RDM had been, not just using to name on whatever job they might throw at me.

You're so obsessed with proving everyone wrong, that you don't seem to be reading what anyone is actually saying. You manipulate scenarios in favor of yourself and discredit everyone else.
You're only presenting limited information which supports your idea without crediting obvious counter information which makes you look either irrational or entirely one-sided.

I'm not saying you are, but you come off as an immodest know-it-all... People didn't stop posting because they "lost" which is probably how your mind works after reading your posts for what, only a week? They stopped posting because you're a troll ass mofo who's only goal is to validate himself; engaging you any further is an exercise in futility. Kinda like this post I guess!

TLDR; Your ramblings have more holes than Swiss cheese. Would not put on my sub at subway because I'm a big boy and can build my own sandwich. Which is odd because i'm technically not building it... Then I guess... I am the assistant supervisor of my own sandwich! Hell yeah. #ValidationOfWorth

[Mimilu]

You're so obsessed with proving everyone wrong, that you don't seem to be reading what anyone is actually saying. You manipulate scenarios in favor of yourself and discredit everyone else.
You're only presenting limited information which supports your idea without crediting obvious counter information which makes you look either irrational or entirely one-sided.

I'm not saying you are, but you come off as an immodest know-it-all... People didn't stop posting because they "lost" which is probably how your mind works after reading your posts for what, only a week? They stopped posting because you're a troll ass mofo who's only goal is to validate himself; engaging you any further is an exercise in futility. Kinda like this post I guess!

Someone gets it... >w>

[Reynhart]

You're so obsessed with proving everyone wrong, that you don't seem to be reading what anyone is actually saying.

Two people have strongly disageed with me on this topic.

The first one has brought several points that contradicts each other just to prove me wrong, without even acknowledging what "raid utility" is, and keep focusing on "if your personal DPS is weak, then you are useless".

The other one quickly stated that "RDM is obviously a tank"...without any real proof as why it should be a tank, while certain other jobs aren't. If you don't have something more to bring that "it's obvious" then you're not really making a point. And he also didn't mind thinking of a tank that could outdo one of the current tank on everything without seeing any problem with that.

Oh, and last time I checked, I never congratulate myself for other people "losing".

But, yeah, if that's so easy, and since Mimulu is so happy that you agree with him, tell me what those "obvious counter information are". I'm pretty sur I can debunk every one of those using only facts from previous FF games.

[Tanathya]

The first one has brought several points that contradicts each other just to prove me wrong, without even acknowledging what "raid utility" is, and keep focusing on "if your personal DPS is weak, then you are useless".

The other one quickly stated that "RDM is obviously a tank"...without any real proof as why it should be a tank, while certain other jobs aren't. If you don't have something more to bring that "it's obvious" then you're not really making a point. And he also didn't mind thinking of a tank that could outdo one of the current tank on everything without seeing any problem with that.

Big, fat lol.

But, yeah, if that's so easy, and since Mimulu is so happy that you agree with him, tell me what those "obvious counter information are". I'm pretty sur I can debunk every one of those using only facts from previous FF games.

An even fatter lol.

You're so obsessed with proving everyone wrong, that you don't seem to be reading what anyone is actually saying. You manipulate scenarios in favor of yourself and discredit everyone else.
You're only presenting limited information which supports your idea without crediting obvious counter information which makes you look either irrational or entirely one-sided.

Which is why I stopped after they said I didn't explain myself, when I did, more than enough times. Apparently discrediting someone just because it doesn't go with their flow is the trend.

[MagiusNecros]

Red Mage has always been a class that can perform decently in every role but won't excel at top level in anything. So it can heal/tank/dps as demand is needed for it. That said at endgame it will fall off and suck at everything forever. Or they could make it like the Warrior ergo certain classes excel at certain content but the Red Mage can do well in anything it wants.

Or the devs will just fuck it up like a bunch of other classes in the game in order to have an original take on the Job. Ergo Red Mage becomes a class in name only. Like the Summoner, Dark Knight, Black Mage, Astro(Time Mage), etc.

If they release Red Mage I will be doing kneejerk comparisons to BDFF's version of it just to prove a point.

Edit: Now if we got Red Mage or another caster who can use Xande's skills specifically Knuckle Press I will be all over that. I love Knuckle Press.