That Garlean guy, what was his name? Gaius Van Baelsar

[Theodric]

I actually think it'd be a pretty great way to mitigate some of the WoL's plot armour. To have them and their allies criticised once it becomes widely known that whilst they're putting down major threats and navigating the political field the fallout is pretty brutal - since a lot of 'normal' people are slain and largely forgotten along the way. Neither Ul'dah or Ishgard have been made 'better' for the WoL's meddling -not truly, at least. I guess I'm just not a huge fan of the idea of it being seen as amazing and honourable to sacrifice one's life on behalf of Hydaelyn/WoL. Which I suppose is contradictory since I'm not opposed to characters being killed off. In fact, I encourage it...albeit under different circumstances.

After all, war doesn't have any real winners. I'm hoping that Matoya's words in the trailer are indicative of the story going to great lengths to cement that. The WoL has at times been shown to be rather ruthless and unreasonable. I want to see more of that and meaningful consequences as a result.

[Balphagor_]

Its incredubly unlikely, but we MAY get the Gunblade as a Job one day, and logically it seems like we would need a Galean to teach us, So... what if he survived, be it his choice or someone rescuing him and he is the one to teach us how they work.

Imagine that all of the Job quests as he teaches you could be him showing his side of the argument over what is right and wrong, but not in like a push way, more in a "consider my way of thinking for a moment".
So like we could learn how their weapons work and could get a little more insight into his character and motivations. Of all the character "villains" we have met so far he strikes me as one who actually is interested in words over force in a way.

For example, though it was through a use of force in a way he did offer everyone the chance to surrender without bloodshed, and I dont recall any times where he directly straight up ordered murder (though there is one time in the 2.0 story that something happens, i.e. the Waking Sands raid, but he might have ordered capture and the others took it upon themselves to kill).

It's just a thought. We could then even get to see the man behind the armour.

[Belhi]

I don't think people would harass on the WoL that much. The reality is that people need the WoL more than s/he needs them and at least part of the WoL would be more than willing to just walk away from all of it, as shown in the DRK quests. Regardless of the WoL's failings and their have been plenty without the WoL all the city states would be suffering much worse if only just from the Primals.

Being the WoL is rather a poor deal. They have to take massive risks with little reward beyond peoples thanks. With their skills and abilities they could become very powerful and wealthy individuals if they wanted. Instead they go running around fighting godlike beings and ancient evils, going to extraordinary lengths to solve other peoples problems, and pouring a massive amount of effort into trying to bring other groups together peacefully. Considering what they WoL gets out of it the rest of Eorzea really doesn't have much grounds to stand on to go berating the WoL. The WoL doesn't owe them squat.

[Belhi]

For example, though it was through a use of force in a way he did offer everyone the chance to surrender without bloodshed, and I dont recall any times where he directly straight up ordered murder (though there is one time in the 2.0 story that something happens, i.e. the Waking Sands raid, but he might have ordered capture and the others took it upon themselves to kill).

That really depends on how involved he was in the recruitment of Ala Mhigan Conscripts. The Garleans then had the brainwashed youths they took away from their families murder a family member.

[Fenral]

I guess I'm just not a huge fan of the idea of it being seen as amazing and honourable to sacrifice one's life on behalf of Hydaelyn/WoL. Which I suppose is contradictory since I'm not opposed to characters being killed off. In fact, I encourage it...albeit under different circumstances.

I personally am less a fan of how Moenbryda and Ysayle (and G'raha over in optional land) seemed to end their soul-searching character arcs by discovering that suicide is the answer. Especially considering Moen and Raha pulled their sacrifices as a direct response to the sacrifices of others. When does it end?

Nanamo's death would have been so good for the setting: we wouldn't need to justify it to ourselves as anything other than unmitigated tragedy, and it would have let them take the gloves off and make Ul'dah our token evil city-state. Instead we're just going around meeting interesting people with interesting problems, and teaching them that their problems don't need real solutions because their lives are worth so much less than the greater good.

[CyrilLucifer]

Ysayle's sacrifice was just so misplaced and absurd, don't even get me started. It was nice from a dramatic standpoint, I suppose, but while we all know that I'm one of the ones constantly pushing for a darker story, I too, am getting a bit worn thin on XIV's glorification of sacrifice as if it somehow makes things better in the end. It doesn't.

But at least Ysayle had something she felt she had to atone for. Moenbryda? She was vibrant, happy, in love with life and Urianger, and her sacrifice was equally silly in the way she was basically heralded as a hero.

I agree, Nanamo would have been a good one to keep permanently dead. It was considered completely a tragedy, not romanticized at all. Because it was so horrible made it all the more impacting.

I believe you were the one who mentioned it, Fenral, but the real issue right now is that it's primarily 1.0 protagonists protected by this plot armor. This hurts the narrative more than anything else.

That being said, 2.5 was a masterwork for Gideon Emery, proving once again he is one of the best English voice actors in the business (along with Liam O'Brien, if I may say so), so Moenbryda's death was kiiiiinda sorta worth it. Maybe. A little bit. Okay, fine, I like Nabriales better. You win.

[Frederick22]

And here we go again with the deads......

Can we please dont go off topic?

[Teakwood]

GAIUS LIVES.

I'll never give up hope. ;_;

[Enkidoh]

GAIUS LIVES.

I'll never give up hope. ;_;

Uh oh...

You do know it is that kind of misplaced hope and devotion that actually gives birth to Primals, the very 'false gods' Gaius himself was hellbent on destroying?

The irony would be delicious.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Uh oh...

You do know it is that kind of misplaced hope and devotion that actually gives birth to Primals, the very 'false gods' Gaius himself was hellbent on destroying?

The irony would be delicious.

The amount of disgust and contempt I'd have for that primal would make that figbt extreemly personal.

As much as I like Gaius, and primal abomination taking his image would be an insult to the very man it was copying and I would destroy it with extreme prejudice.