What Jobs would you like to see in the next Expansion

[Shurrikhan]

Try to rework these abilities in FF14

http://www.ffexodus.com/ffx2/dress12.php

Do I have permission to first make more interesting enemies to use them on?

[Kaeoni]

Couldn't agree more Shurrikhan.

I hope Developers loosen up sooner rather than later so we can have the Rdm we all know and love.

Rdm Isn't my first, second or third pick honestly. I don't hate Rdm or anything, but I would rather like to see Beastmaster, Alchemist, Geomancer and Blue Mage. Samurai would be cool, but that one pretty much seems guaranteed at this point lol... Sooooo i didn't put it to my list.

[Reynhart]

The Idea of Rdm being a tank stems from the fact that If it is not, and i'm repeating myself here, It can not fulfill the role of a Red Mage

Again, why ? RDM's role has never been a tank. So you'd take a job that can, in the past, DPS well and heal well, and you'd give it another role on top of that.

Besides, RDM was always closer to the offensive role, either by having more black than white spells (FF I) or by simply having a majority of offensive white magic spell (FF III and V), on top of being able to equip strong weapons and armor. So RDM is not half-healer/half-DPS.

As for Tanking as an Idea, Rdm isn't a backline class Like Whm or Blm. It's always been a front line class even in the original iterations of the job.

A lot of jobs are "frontlines", that doesn't make them "tanks", though.

Especially since holding threat and such mechanics didn't exist early on, nor do they in many FF games today.

Well, technically, Provoke, Cover and Defend are fairly old skills in the franchise, and they're the closest you'd be to a threat mechanic.

I'm not really understanding why you think I'd assume Rdm would be "Half-Efficient" as Tank.

I'm not, and that's precisely the issue. If RDM is a tank, it must be an efficient tank. But, to keep balance between the three (then four) tanks, you have to keep it's damage output and healing prowess in check.
Nowadays, we already have a balance problem, because tanks don't do a lot of things : Hold threat, survive, damage and, somehow, heal.
Holding threat is a non issue, and surviving is the basic, so let's get these out of the way.
Sadly, without the elemental resistance, physical and magical damage are mostly the same, the difference is really only cosmetic.
So, in the end, tanks are judged by how much damage they do, and, potentially, how much heal they do. That's why I'm concerned about PLD and why I've asked a these questions about damage and healing output.
The way I see it, wherever you set RDM, you'll end up either being useless or making PLD useless. And it's not helped by the fact that tanks are already very close to each other in their core gameplay.

DRK was not made to make PLD or WAR useless, but it went in a way where none of thos really were: Magic mitigation. And still...having three tanks for two spot somehow pushed PLD away for top game.
If you make RDM a tank, you'd have to find its gimmick. But we only have two types of damage, we already have a tank that heals itself, a tank that heal others and a tank that do high damage.

I'm not going to sit here and List all the spells Rdm has access to to draw from, so people can look those up themselves. But Enspells And Phanlax are ones worth noting, So are it's ability to cast faster than any other mage.

Problem is that all those are taken only from FFXI, where RDM was a really unbalanced job. And they're also so numerous that you'd need to pick only a few of them, making probably everybody unhappy that "that spell" wasn't chosen

Essentially Rdm just stays Rdm. It's in close quarters, Uses Black Magic in Offensive stance, and White Magic in Defensive stance.

The same could be made for a DPS, you don't need to be a tank to have that.

I don't think it's fair to let a class don the Red Mage garb if it's not a Red Mage. That my friend, is called a lie; we know what makes a Red Mage a Red Mage.

Yes, and again, in the past, RDM had never been designed to be a tank. It's a damaging job that can heal, and it was this as early as FF I.

[karateorangutang]

Yes, and again, in the past, RDM had never been designed to be a tank. It's a damaging job that can heal, and it was this as early as FF I.

I don't disagree with most of your post, but I do disagree with this. RDM is not a damaging job that can heal, its a job that can damage, heal, support, melee, and take damage well. Which is why it would be hard to fit in this game. It can do all of these well not based on its base abilities, but based on how you cast yor opening spells. Its a job that screams flexibility in the same way that a DnD cleric does.

[Reynhart]

I don't disagree with most of your post, but I do disagree with this. RDM is not a damaging job that can heal, its a job that can damage, heal, support, melee, and take damage well.

Having a bit of supporting skill doesn't change the fact that WHM's main focus is healing and BLM main focus is damage.
For RDM, it's basically the same, support is not its focus...except in FFXI.

Like I said, in early Final Fantasies, RDM tends to have far more damaging spells (Be they Black or White) than healing spells. And Melee is, in the end, only another form of damage.
As for taking hits, RDM is not particularily sturdy...except in FFXI. He can wear light armor, making it stronger than most mages, but around the same as light fighters like MNK, NIN or RNG.

[karateorangutang]

snip

So... I guess I'm confused. So, your saying it's average... in everything...

Which is what I said. Light armor is still a melee armor making it hardier than mage classes. They can equip a plethora of weapons to enhance magic or melee at their discretion. They can cast, even in ff1, magic that increases defence in addition to the second highest cure spell in the game. In FFV they further get dual cast making them proficient at not only casting nukes quickly, but buff spells as well dependent on how you want to play. I does not fit into any role and that includes DPS. Maybe as a villain RDM would be cool, but as a player class it cannot be the red mage that everyone remembers. Maybe it can for you because you played it as a DPS, but not everyone did. It's hybrid nature is what makes it fun.

[Reynhart]

So... I guess I'm confused. So, your saying it's average... in everything...

They're average at everything while leaning a llitle on the "killing ennemies" part.

The reason why I think RDM should be a DPS is more of a "default" role. It's easier to shoehorn versatility into a DPS than into a tank or into a healer, thanks to "raidwide DPS" and thanks to the fact that DPS can play very differently (For example, having comboes mixing WS and Spells would give a unique feel) but still stay competitive against each other .

That doesn't change the fact that it could be a "DPS that can buff and heal". After all, BRD and MCH are already some kind of "DPS that buff". And an INT focused RDM who could cross-class Cleric Stance to heal would give decent numbers for emergency...and, for the love of everything that is holy, get rid of this Battle-raise trait...

[karateorangutang]

The reason why I think RDM should be a DPS is more of a "default" role. It's easier to shoehorn versatility into a DPS than into a tank or into a healer, thanks to "raidwide DPS" and thanks to the fact that DPS can play very differently (For example, having comboes mixing WS and Spells would give a unique feel) but still stay competitive against each other .

It's this line that I think sums it up though. Shoehorning RDM into a role at all defeats the very nature of RDM. I agree that it shouldn't be a tank either, or a healer. I'm not of a stance that it should be in a certain role. I'm of a stance that it shouldn't be here at all.

[Reynhart]

I'm of a stance that it shouldn't be here at all.

Oh...well that's a different situation then

Problem is, most people think it will be there thanks to the last teasing. And starting from this hypothesis, they try to guess what it could be.
The "I guess it will be a tank...not, it must be a tank" is the part that confused me.

[Jhett_Magnum]

They should just make Red Mage glamour and call it a day. I'm praying for Samurai to be a DPS though. Leave that tank spot open for something unique. There are many ways to kill an enemie, but there's only so few niches available for tanks in this game.