POLL: Best healer for 4 mans?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

and yeah Lyrica u said it yourself "compare the capacity of the jobs without random variables", so thats what i meant - same thing with all those dps calculation on Faust... DDs doing fine on it because there is nothing what could interfere their "perfection"... but where do u have this perfect setting at all? nowhere else. i wasnt meant to be mean - i personally just dont like those calculations. because you said yourself again "It gives you a theoretical indication".

You don't seem to get it. Whatever random variables would be around for one job, be it gear, ability or random crit damage, also applies to every other job. Unless you plan to make multiple comparisons with all those random factors involved, then feel free. But why would you when you can do it in it's most primitive form and simply go for the highest ceiling. If all healers can contribute 1000 dps throughout the run, but can only achieve 80% of it due to the random factors, then all three healers would be affected equally. You make a claim, sustain it with facts. Not "because I said so" arguments.

[NamoNanamo]

whats up with you now Namo? o.o

just said i kill way faster with whm than with sch - should i feel bad about that?... if u say so, ill do. not. and if you count posts you'll see way more people agree with that "fact" than those 2-3 sch players. btw it's not that i hate schs actually my main is sch too - therefore i know for sure what i just said about comparising both healer on trash mobs. dont know why u got so mad on me... but well in the end i dont mind at all.

It doesn't matter who get the best dps (Burst/substain). My problem is that you don't explain/use argument. And please, stop using fallacy.

[Cleftobismal]

In a perfect world where SMN's will be more like smn's and sch's have a different frame of dps, this would be it. ===>

Nerf ARC dot's.

BUff SMN's Egi's potency and add more interactive egi skills.

Make Egi's look more like primals.

Reflect 1 for 1 dmg as long as the sch shield lasts. Damage is reduced by magic defense.


And give WHM Aero 4, instant cast aoe 45 second CD, that actually summons a T5 Tornado instead of a mini twister or a geometric shape plus increases earth damage received.



The end /o/

[ElroyDrundan]

Speedrun speed runs?

Eos can handle the boss fights and 75% of the trash, ill act as a pesudo second SMN and watch everything melt.

Okay the part about Eos being able to heal most/all of the time by itself is something I don't really get.

I'm about at i200 now and sometimes I'm lucky to be able to have the tank shielded jump to cleric apply dots, bane and maybe one more AoE before tank < 50% and I have to jump back to healing mode. Granted for trash the tanks are always pulling multiple groups. Again even on bosses with AoE dmg and the occasional player eating avoidable dmg no way I can stay in cleric the entire time.

I do things like Rouse before jumping to cleric to improve heals, putting up the HoT before cleric etc. And on the really big pulls I'm healing full time. I do have pet on Obey and force it to heal on my command (usually will have it heal while I'm casting a dmg spell). directed by mouse over etc..

Granted I mostly run DF so maybe that is part of it.

I keep hearing about how the pet can heal most everything but at lvl 60 I'm not finding that to be case.

Am I missing something?

[FoxyAreku]

He missed a tiny word in his sentence...

"SCH is weak in burst AoE"

that would be right - after all the topic is about speed-runs

Edit: my favorit 4 grp constellation for speedruns is Drk, Ast/Whm, Smn & Blm - the Smn/Blm combo is just awesome...

Even in speedruns, short of doing dungeons that I just massively overgear, it's very rare for trash to not live through a full DoT rotation, so I figure burst isn't really needed.

Also that comp is good too, but foes for the healer and black mage+bard aoe does a bit more damage. Though I wonder, does foes increase dark knight damage since I think a couple of their abilities may be magic? If that's the case DRK would be better than warrior with my god comp.

As for Astrologian, their AoE truly is garbage, and even their single target damage is the lowest, so I can't recommend them for a speedrun at all. >_>

[Kaeoni]

Things!

That's interesting! Thanks, i honestly never thought about it like that haha.

[DarkmoonVael]

Okay the part about Eos being able to heal most/all of the time by itself is something I don't really get.

I'm about at i200 now and sometimes I'm lucky to be able to have the tank shielded jump to cleric apply dots, bane and maybe one more AoE before tank < 50% and I have to jump back to healing mode. Granted for trash the tanks are always pulling multiple groups. Again even on bosses with AoE dmg and the occasional player eating avoidable dmg no way I can stay in cleric the entire time.

I do things like Rouse before jumping to cleric to improve heals, putting up the HoT before cleric etc. And on the really big pulls I'm healing full time. I do have pet on Obey and force it to heal on my command (usually will have it heal while I'm casting a dmg spell). directed by mouse over etc..

Granted I mostly run DF so maybe that is part of it.

I keep hearing about how the pet can heal most everything but at lvl 60 I'm not finding that to be case.

Am I missing something?

Yeah you are missing something, namely a tank that can push buttons to mitigate damage . Being able to pull off eos healing most of a dungeon does require a lot of cooperation from tanks in regards to sensible cooldown usage for pulls . Also requires things to die fairly promptly so good dps is usually needed.

Basically what i seem to be saying is you need a good group....

[Triston]

I dunno why people keep writing off AST. Their potencies are lower than SCH and WHM certainly, and in most speedrun situations (medium mob group, tank busts all cooldowns and takes fairly low damage) I would say WHM would be best. However, people are forgetting speedrun situations like Brayflox HM: high mob density, tank busts all cooldowns and STILL takes a ton of damage. In these cases I would much rather have an AST, because in a situation where the healer is spamming heals to save the tank, only AST and SCH can provide extra DPS to the group via buffs, but SCH will likely need Whispering Dawn for the healing throughput. Cards also aren't heavy on RNG, because in a high aoe situation, 4 of the 6 can improve DPS. (all but Bole and Ewer)

tl;dr normally WHM, in high-density situations AST.

[lulunami]

However, people are forgetting speedrun situations like Brayflox HM: high mob density, tank busts all cooldowns and STILL takes a ton of damage. In these cases I would much rather have an AST, because in a situation where the healer is spamming heals to save the tank, only AST and SCH can provide extra DPS to the group via buffs, but SCH will likely need Whispering Dawn for the healing throughput. Cards also aren't heavy on RNG, because in a high aoe situation, 4 of the 6 can improve DPS. (all but Bole and Ewer)

tl;dr normally WHM, in high-density situations AST.

WHM provided the fastest Brayflox HM runs because Holy has lots of damage reduction with its AoE stuns in addition to DPS. 7-8 seconds of stuns is really good. If the tank was ever close to dying even with Divine Seal Regen, Benediction would (hopefully) save the day.

[LegoTechnic]

In 4-mans if the tank is good then it's WHM hands down. WHM have the strongest direct damage spell (Stone III), Aero III is as potent as Bio with a longer timer and coupled with a FREE Bane effect that does not depreciate when hitting more than three targets (like SCH's bane'd dots do), and Holy is a fantastic AoE with a stun. Additionally given Presence of Mind they can burst heavier than either of the other healers, and as long as the tank isn't paper regen will typically keep them safe until cleric can be removed. Also they have Assize, which is just GRAVY.

SCH is easy-man's heals and are probably better on weaker tanks because they can easily shield the tank, rouse the fairy, and then throw on all their dots and apply a bane before switching back out and lustrating the tank to safety. It's very safe largely because of the fairy's free heals, and dot damage is considerably useful given it ticks away while you address the tank with healing. Their strongest point of not missing with three of their moves doesn't apply as much in 4-mans though.

AST is the weakest for a couple of reasons. For one, no AoE until level 52, and then their mana management is rather bland. Additionally they have no AoE dots and can only use Gravity, and while they can regen like a WHM their stun is tied to Celestial Opposition which reduces their burst-spam efficiency. They can shield like the SCH, but without the fairy support it's not as safe.

And yes, this became a DPS answer, because if all you're doing is spamming heals without weaving DPS in then it doesn't matter, they're all just as good at it. Although if you want to be technical, SCH pulls the least amount of aggro from healing, and WHM can hit with the biggest heals. AST can play two ways, but also has the worst aggro reduction.