Is "Traditional" a cop out?

[Wolfie]

No, statistics will only get you so far and most social scientists will tell you that if you want the best information, you don't wait for the source to come to you, you go to it. Of course actually putting that to practice is expensive and uber time consuming, which is why it isn't done extensively but most agree in an ideal setting, it would be the best method. What better method is there than a forum where people can post ideas?

Also, keep in mind that while a bunch of people answered the polls, that's all that number is: people who responded to the poll. That doesn't include people playing the game and people who aren't, or people posting on this site.

Yoshi did say that the responses were in the "tens of thousands" which can't account for a huge player base since the game sold upwards of 600k copies on release. And assuming that "tens of thousands" is actually indicative of the player base, are you going to say that 25 to 30%(average) of the different regions populations are wrong on what is inherently something subjective?

Except that

1. Forums do not contain the entire population of those interested in FFXIV.
2. Social scientists agree that polls with a random sample and a big sample size are extremely accurate and always viable, especially when polling/getting feedback from the entire target population isn't.
3. The people who responded to the polls are (accurately) representative of and certainly DO contain subsets of those that are interested in FFXIV, meaning current, former, and prospective players. See #2.
4. 600k copies SHIPPED. That does not mean SOLD. Even if it was 600k SOLD, it does not mean CURRENTLY PLAYING. Most recent unofficial estimates place the currently playing population between 20k and 30k. The last unofficial estimate before the search function viewing the entire server was taken out, was 41k. That's definitely in the range of "tens of thousands". Even IF there were 600k CURRENTLY PLAYING, a "tens of thousands" sample size accounts for anywhere between 1.7% and 15% of the ENTIRE POPULATION, which is a gigantic number that social scientists agree is capable of producing extremely accurate numbers.
5. You are pulling this 25-30% number from your butt thinking that it represents people who think the game is fine. It actually represents nothing, because no such poll was made and this number does not exist. Even IF this number was gotten from a direct "do you think this game's gameplay is fine" poll, it would STILL be indicative that the gameplay is not fine.

Please please stop arguing against cold, hard numbers. You're coming up with fantasy numbers and scenarios, and you're making extremely uneducated, unfounded, biased, and direction-less posts.

[Stilla]

First off, more than half of the people who purchased FFXIV, did so because of the graphics. So much so that people went off and spent thousands of dollars to buy a new PC or hundreds of dollars to buy new hardware. So when describing what players want please think about the majority of the players who quit because the game lacked the ability to justify the extra cash required to purchase new hardware.

For example, having or not having jump means nothing to a player who spent thousand for a new PC.

[Malakhim]

Except that

1. Forums do not contain the entire population of those interested in FFXIV.
2. Social scientists agree that polls with a random sample and a big sample size are extremely accurate and always viable, especially when polling/getting feedback from the entire target population isn't.
3. The people who responded to the polls are (accurately) representative of and certainly DO contain subsets of those that are interested in FFXIV, meaning current, former, and prospective players. See #2.
4. 600k copies SHIPPED. That does not mean SOLD. Even if it was 600k SOLD, it does not mean CURRENTLY PLAYING. Most recent unofficial estimates place the currently playing population between 20k and 30k. The last unofficial estimate before the search function viewing the entire server was taken out, was 41k. That's definitely in the range of "tens of thousands". Even IF there were 600k CURRENTLY PLAYING, a "tens of thousands" sample size accounts for anywhere between 1.7% and 15% of the ENTIRE POPULATION, which is a gigantic number that social scientists agree is capable of producing extremely accurate numbers.
5. You are pulling this 25-30% number from your butt thinking that it represents people who think the game is fine. It actually represents nothing, because no such poll was made and this number does not exist. Even IF this number was gotten from a direct "do you think this game's gameplay is fine" poll, it would STILL be indicative that the gameplay is not fine.

Please please stop arguing against cold, hard numbers. You're coming up with fantasy numbers and scenarios, and you're making extremely uneducated, unfounded, biased, and direction-less posts.

OK. You're still wrong about the original point though. The game has done plenty of things that other games in the series hasn't. Regardless of whether you approve or not can't dismiss that.

[Wolfie]

OK. You're still wrong about the original point though. The game has done plenty of things that other games in the series hasn't. Regardless of whether you approve or not can't dismiss that.

What original point? My original point? The one that says gameplay blows? No, I'm pretty sure I've thoroughly argued for it the entire time.

[Spuffin]

The onyl reason why they are relying on the great aspects of FF11 and no other FF is because FF11 was the ONLY OTHER MMO THEY EVERY MADE and 14 is their second (Final Fantasy Title wise). FF11 was also a great success in MANY different aspects and they should have based FF14 off of FF11's foundation instead of try something that no MMO has tried before. They can do it with offline games but they simply just CANT do that with Online MMO games....

[Spuffin]

First off, more than half of the people who purchased FFXIV, did so because of the graphics. So much so that people went off and spent thousands of dollars to buy a new PC or hundreds of dollars to buy new hardware. So when describing what players want please think about the majority of the players who quit because the game lacked the ability to justify the extra cash required to purchase new hardware.

For example, having or not having jump means nothing to a player who spent thousand for a new PC.

It sounds like you spent thousands for a new PC >.>

[Kilta_Firelotus]

ima get flamed but here is my 2 cents cuz I actually remembered a few things ppl failed to notice.

I don't feel ffxiv was rushed as ppl claimed. The game itself would look bad. If you want to see a rushed game look up two worlds (the first one). What REALY happens to ffxiv was technical difficaults the old team couldn't fix. People over speculated with no limits. And refused to listen when ppl said not to. I do agree that side quests should have been in game from the start.

But most stuff was put on hold due to all of the stability issues.
We were suppose to get compainies at launch, the added hair styles group crafting. But was not due to server stability.

They couldn't fix it so a new team with better experiance was put in place. They said sorry for how the game was launched. If ppl really didn't like the ideas, alpha or beta. No one would have bought the game.

People now or complaining for sake of Last i check graphics was bad before in ffxiv now cuz a troll thinks so ppl follow

[Kilta_Firelotus]

What this game needs besudes a bit more to it, is a decrease in over speculation which is really killing the game off. SE can add all the content they want, ppl will over speculate how they feel it will be and turn out not the way they envisioned it. Will rant about it and make ppl see that also.
Ignorace is bliss.

Over spectulation kills games more then bad design.

[Malakhim]

ima get flamed but here is my 2 cents cuz I actually remembered a few things ppl failed to notice.

I don't feel ffxiv was rushed as ppl claimed. The game itself would look bad. If you want to see a rushed game look up two worlds (the first one). What REALY happens to ffxiv was technical difficaults the old team couldn't fix. People over speculated with no limits. And refused to listen when ppl said not to. I do agree that side quests should have been in game from the start.

But most stuff was put on hold due to all of the stability issues.
We were suppose to get compainies at launch, the added hair styles group crafting. But was not due to server stability.

They couldn't fix it so a new team with better experiance was put in place. They said sorry for how the game was launched. If ppl really didn't like the ideas, alpha or beta. No one would have bought the game.

People now or complaining for sake of Last i check graphics was bad before in ffxiv now cuz a troll thinks so ppl follow

If we look at Final Fantasy XI's release and compare FFXIV to that, then no it wasn't really rushed by those standards, as FFXI was missing a lot of stuff too. Thing is that you can't release an MMO in that state anymore thanks in no small part to the success of games like FFXI and WoW, which while having years worth of reiteration and content, basically set a high bar to entry.

FFXIV made a lot of interesting innovations, but they either lacked in certain areas, had arbitrary limits, or as Yoshi himself mentioned, felt very disconnected from each other.

Ultimately I've genuinely enjoyed the end product, but I can't say I haven't enjoyed what improvements Yoshi is making and will continue to make.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I'm basically saying in the enjd no matter how nuch is put into the game, if ppl over speculate it. They will wind up dissappointed. Be lucky with what you do have then with the have not. Least this game now has side quests.
Stop worrying about them having 1 min long CS.

I agree with that though, and ffxiv was gonna have more content then what we did get, but was all put on the side due to stability and tech issues. Not to mention the ps3 hiccup.