Astrologian impossible to balance as it is

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well, this topic sure went astray. If you guys want to continue making suggestions and whatnot, please do that in a different topic

[Lilith_Merquise]

Well, this topic sure went astray. If you guys want to continue making suggestions and whatnot, please do that in a different topic

We're talking about Sects and you pose that they are not able to be balanced, we are suggesting ideas that may not make them balanced but will at least give a reason and situation for each sect. Therefore it is consistent with the topic. Unless we're all just supposed to read that novel you posted, nod our heads and state "Yes, this job is screwed." In which case I recommend you state in your post that this isn't a discussion topic as much as it's an affirm/deny my point.

All of AST's healing spells cost less MP than the other two healers by default even though they have the same base potency as WHM's versions.

You're basically asking for WHM with infinite MP like SCH with this suggestion. It would render WHM obsolete.

A tad dramatic don't you think? Yes our heals are "SLIGHTLY" cheaper in MP (unless it's Helios which is equal) but also SE and it's infinite wisdom thinks that if we heal like a WHM or a SCH then we're stealing their job, which is why we heal for less and at times faster but with less punch. Cool less mp, less cure, MAYBE faster cast times! I have no problem with that, but what I'm stating is making it so that you can heal cheap in AoE (less cure potency then WHM AoE) for cheaper when under the specific stance for AoE healing.

WHM gets free cures with its traits and SCH has great MP regeneration and essentially a 2nd unmanned hand for healing that dons't cost anything. I hardly see why knocking off more MP% for AoE (again something we have equal cost in with WHM/SCH) making it punishing to heal AoE in Nocturnal but beneficial in Diurnal. This would hardly make a class as beastly as WHM "obsolete" and if anything is making a trash fire into a Forest Fire.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

We're talking about Sects and you pose that they are not able to be balanced, we are suggesting ideas that may not make them balanced but will at least give a reason and situation for each sect. Therefore it is consistent with the topic. Unless we're all just supposed to read that novel you posted, nod our heads and state "Yes, this job is screwed." In which case I recommend you state in your post that this isn't a discussion topic as much as it's an affirm/deny my point.

Astrologian is impossible to balance as it is. As for why, you'll just have to read the initial post as I will not repeat it here. I never intended this to be any form of "suggest this to fix Astrologian" topic. It was intended to prevent more nonsensical topics related to that. Or rather; What 95% of all Astrologian topics in the past 2 months are about. For example, your particular "contribution" in this topic:

Frankly I think they just need to bump up the shield strength or make it so it gives resistanc/armor + for as long as its in effect like how our bubble does that and regen. Then remove the AS+ for Diurnal and make it -MP% to make spells cheaper. Then make it so you can stance dance em, heck even give it a fairly long CD if you want, don't care, but making it so Diurnal is for AoE an Nocturnal is for maximum healing on a tank would make the class leaps and bounds better then what it is now.

I've pointed it out what the issues are and why Nocturnal sect can never fulfill it's intended, role. So explain to me how this "suggestion" can solve all the issues I've pointed out that prevents Nocturnal Sect be as good as Diurnal Sect for it's intended role.
Bump up the shield strength or increased resistance/armor? MP sustainability as well as sustain healing is still an issue.
Cost reduction in diurnal? Nocturnal Sect is the one with self sustain problems
Stance dance? Frankly, this is not even the answer. Ghishlain mentioned something about healing paradigm and this would simply destroy it. This is the sort of "fix" that would cause the least amount of collateral damage, however. But whether it's definitely not the kind of "fix" Astrologian would need. If stance dancing was a thing, might as well integrate the entire Diurnal Kit into the aspected abilities and make Nocturnal Sect similar to Grit; switch on/switch off.

Astrologian, or more specifically Nocturnal Sect, cannot be tooled to be good for it's intended role as Diurnal Sect is right now. Frankly, I don't even see why this would be such an issue. The fact aside that the Astrologian kit prevents itself to have balanced kits, the player base bias will always lean towards one or the other. There are plenty of "oh please fix Nocturnal sect" topics out there. If you feel the urge to make more suggestions, please go to those posts. Unless you can think of a "solution" to make Nocturnal Sect as good as Diurnal Sect for it's intended role without:
More homogenization
More flat potency increases
More identity ironing
Additions to the stratagem simply for the sake of it without solving any of the mentioned problems
Without the requirement of reworking the job. After all, the topic is about Astrologian being unable to balance both sects as it is

[Judge_Xero]

Well, this topic sure went astray. If you guys want to continue making suggestions and whatnot, please do that in a different topic

If you are also referring to my post, I'm not making any suggestions in regards to what AST should be, but merely to emphasize where they are lacking in the current meta. Which is kind of on topic as to why AST can't be balanced in it's current form as it just doesn't have the level of synergy that a WHM/SCH composition has.

The Card Mechanic of AST is in itself impossible to balance due to being RNG of nature and relying so heavily on Party performance. Sure the buffs are nice, but only when "needed" and it's not like there is 60s between phases where AST has enough time to draw the exact card they need.

AST will never be a good class if it's stances do not mesh well with AST/SCH, AST/WHM and while it is completely under-tuned in Party DPS utility due to being balanced around perfect RNG for it's Cards.

----------------------------------------------------

Since it is true that AST is the weakest healer in any situation other than solo healing (where co-healer synergy and DPS are not as much of a concern), there shouldn't be an issue in tossing around ideas of whether any small changes could significantly improve AST as the pretense of the thread kind of points to disproving whether it "can" be balanced.