Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

[Lyth]

Although people try to equate HP and "defense" (i.e. damage reduction) during tankbusters (using concepts such as eHP) to determine whether a tank survives a hit, the two stats aren't actually interchangeable.

HP and % damage reduction stats (def/mdef) influence the total amount of unhealed damage you can take. % damage reduction stats (def/mdef) and parry/block influence the rate of incoming damage. Outside of tankbusters, tanks and healers are primarily responding to the rate, not the total amount. (If the former is like "distance", the latter is like "velocity").

As an example, if the rate of incoming damage is less than regen + fairy, the healer has complete freedom to dps. As the rate of damage increases, more of those offensive spell casts have to be substituted with curative spells to match the rate, and the reverse is true if a tank or healer cooldown (i.e. rampart, divine seal) is used. Stats on gear that influence % damage reduction (i.e. the ilvl of your left side tank gear pieces) help with this as well.

Your ability to dps on a tank or healer comes from your knowledge of damage patterns and correctly matching the rate of incoming damage. Tanks do this primarily by adjusting the incoming damage through their stance and defensive cooldowns. Healers do this primarily by substituting heals and offensive spell casts, as well as by titrating up (divine seal) or down (cleric stance) the rate of outgoing healing. Healer DPS and healing are interwoven together.

Outside of tankbusters, HP becomes an important factor on a healer if you treat your tank's HP bar like a black mage does their MP bar, alternating between no outgoing healing at all to panicked, compensatory healing without outgoing dps. If a portion of the tank's HP bar stays unfilled for the entirety of the fight, it's as if it doesn't exist (you might as well not have it). HP matters in this case only because the tank's HP is intermittently being brought into a range where even autos are dangerous. Correctly matching the rate of incoming damage with outgoing tank cooldowns and heals resolves this problem.

[Archaell]

From the healer perspective:

1. Str tanks have to use Defensive CDs properly, which is hard to do and tonz of tanks fail at it.

2. Big HP pools require no skill, it is simply there.

Option n.2 is much better for the daily grinds, because it improves the situation even when the tank ignores the defensive CDs.

[Raineer]

To summarize: You always remember the people that are bad at their jobs. So when you (currently) see a STR tank misusing their CDs, it's quite noticeable - so it's assumed all STR tanks are idiots. You don't notice the VIT tanks as much because the higher HP reduces the need for player skill to avoid death (but you still need to heal more - but that's easier to do than resurrecting a dead tank).

What most of you didn't notice was the slower kills due to the lack of decent tank DPS, which can still be much higher than most of you know.

In the end - this entire thread is pointless. SE is finally tying DPS to a tank's primary stat (something done already on literally every other job), so the discussion goes away.

I personally hope they don't even do a mix between STR/VIT needs, just tie all attack to VIT and be done with it. There's always only one "best build", so they might as well cut down on the math needed to get to it. Making it overly complex just adds to the 'elite' delineation between those willing to spreadsheet and those who aren't. Post 3.2, bad tanks will still be bad and will take much more damage than good tanks. They will still be obvious.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

From the healer perspective:

1. Str tanks have to use Defensive CDs properly, which is hard to do and tonz of tanks fail at it.

2. Big HP pools require no skill, it is simply there.

Option n.2 is much better for the daily grinds, because it improves the situation even when the tank ignores the defensive CDs.

Ok so general question.... is using Defensive CD's properly that hard? I'm not referring to progression content that teams are still trying to work out the fights on.

Also, I didn't imply (or intend to imply) that all VIT tanks were bad at proper mitigation. Bads are Bads, regardless of their cover.

[RiisWolf]

While I'll be the first to agree that currently, Fending tank ≠ shitty player, this response is a little... whoa...

Can't we just all get along? All of this shit will be moot in a few weeks anyway and it'll be more clear than ever who is a good tank and who isn't.

I wish.

Yup, and then the only thing that will matter soon is skill instead of if they are fending or slayer. Not from only the tank, but also from the healers. . . ..who already do use HoTs and barriers less and less because of need or a fear of overhealing.
I will be lucky to find a WHM just use all the hots and laugh as they stone things for over 30 seconds, who is NOT me! More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

[lawlHT]

I wish.

Yup, and then the only thing that will matter soon is skill instead of if they are fending or slayer. Not from only the tank, but also from the healers. . . ..who already do use HoTs and barriers less and less because of need or a fear of overhealing.
I will be lucky to find a WHM just use all the hots and laugh as they stone things for over 30 seconds, who is NOT me! More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

I'm confused by this post. Are you trying to say that rocketing your overheal percentage to sky high levels is a good thing?

[Whiteroom]

Ok so general question.... is using Defensive CD's properly that hard? I'm not referring to progression content that teams are still trying to work out the fights on.

Also, I didn't imply (or intend to imply) that all VIT tanks were bad at proper mitigation. Bads are Bads, regardless of their cover.

The amout of tanks who don't use CDs... for example, tonight in duty roulette, only notced the tank pop one CD the whole run, and for that it was when the last boss was casting an AOE they weren't standing in anyway...
Or the time I said "I don't mine healing you in deliverance, but please use CD." And got yelled at, to a WAR in straight str in neverreap who did the biggest pulls possible.and stayed in deliverance, never popping a CD.

[konpachizaraki]

so. uh..
aside from changing VIT so that it affects tank attack power is there any other changes beside that?
like maybe it affect healing % or VIT giving more defense and magic defense?

[Syzygian]

so. uh..
aside from changing VIT so that it affects tank attack power is there any other changes beside that?
like maybe it affect healing % or VIT giving more defense and magic defense?

They specifically said that PLD is getting buffs/adjustments, and that all 3 tanks would be getting defensive adjustments. My -guess- is that they will ever so slightly buff DRK and *ever so slightly* nerf WAR, on the defensive front. I'm betting there will be changes to DD and Reprisal, and probably to Equilibrium and Storm's Path. That's just me spitballing though.

I think the DPS ceilings of the 3 tanks relative to eachother are going to stay the same (WAR top OT, DRK top MT, PLD... somewhere. Hopefully they get a raid DPS buff or something). I don't think PLD is going to end up outstripping DRK as MT or WAR as OT in the DPS department. It just doesn't make sense. 1-handed weapons deal less damage than 2-handed ones. But I hope they get some good buffs elsewhere, they need/deserve it.

[Kuwagami]

More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

no. Having 50% more hp just means the healer can do sth else for 50% more time but then will spend 50% more time healing. The overall time spent healing/doing sth else will be the same