VIT will scale with attack power, STR will scale but not as much

[Kaisinel]

I'm full STR tank I enjoy the challenge of sacrificing my "tankiness" to output DPS that is MY choice. Honestly annoyed now that I am forced to play VIT because a bunch of crybabies have to complain.

Just nerf the shit out of all tanks at this point too. Make every skill "enhance enmity" and do only 50 potency. Cause to know we needz to hold hate and take hits. Make our CDs make us damn near invincible with out 45000k hp pools everyone thinks is required for fights. Please just break the classes more. GG!!!!

[Syzygian]

I'm full STR tank I enjoy the challenge of sacrificing my "tankiness" to output DPS that is MY choice. Honestly annoyed now that I am forced to play VIT because a bunch of crybabies have to complain.

Just nerf the shit out of all tanks at this point too. Make every skill "enhance enmity" and do only 50 potency. Cause to know we needz to hold hate and take hits. Make our CDs make us damn near invincible with out 45000k hp pools everyone thinks is required for fights. Please just break the classes more. GG!!!!

LOL, they'll never please anyone. I love how you call an entire group of the community "crybabies" in a post where you are essentially bawling.

Here's the thing: The STR vs. VIT debate has been perhaps one of the biggest sources of toxicity in this game's tanking meta if not the entire community. Now all of that venom is going away, yet people such as yourself are still clinging to it. Who cares if its not as EDGEY anymore cause you aren't pulling 10 mobs with 16K HP and walking away? Now it just means you can pull 15 mobs and do the same thing.

It is EXTREMELY likely that after the tickle-me-tank-busters of A1-4S and the STR meta/tank-stance-less-meta of 3.0-3.1, combined with these changes, that bosses in Midas and probably in 3.2 in general are going to hit much harder.

What challenge are you referring to here? The idea that you have to click different gear onto your character sheet? Mad skillz yo. Or perhaps its that you had to rotate cooldowns? Um, all good tanks do that whether they're in STR or VIT.

The mechanics of how to play PLD, WAR, or DRK are the same regardless of whether they are STR or VIT spec. It makes zero difference. All it means is you're dealing more damage because of gear. Saying that it is a challenge to sacrifice VIT for STR is woefully hypocritical when people have established for ages now that that "sacrifice" does not increase the damage you take or make you any harder to heal. You're not sacrificing much of anything at all, in fact you're just giving yourself a freebie. STR tanking is EASIER. Its the same illusion of difficulty that beating FFVIII without leveling up had. Sure you were really low level but the mechanics of the game actually made it WAY easier to play through and, frankly, break, in that way. Tanking out of tank stance is another animal entirely, as that actually DOES increase the damage you take (well, not if you're a WAR, but it does rob you of IB and EQ healing), and also hurts your enmity generation. But going full STR instead of VIT? That is not that huge of an accomplishment, or challenge.

On that note, probably the only way they'll break aggressive tanking playstyles is if they lock you into a stance upon engaging mobs/bosses. Which will absolutely never happen because then tank-swaps would be extremely cumbersome to implement.

This won't fucking break anything by itself. PLD/WAR/DRK will still have the same rotations and relative damage caps barring some other adjustments that have nothing to do with the STR/VIT thing. It won't change the way you play your job, at all in the slightest. MAYBE the numbers on the screen will be a few hundred points smaller (but that isn't even confirmed one way or another). Who the hell cares? You're still playing your job the same so you're still pushing the job's DPS ceiling (right?) just as you always would. Even Xeno and Layla would tell you to gtfo and play DPS if the damage output of tanking is the sole attraction for you.

This change does not change the way we play our jobs. It just makes it so that we all have a uniform relative DPS ceiling and nobody will be able shit on eachother for their choice in gear anymore, and the only indication of skill will be the knowledge and expertise you have at your job, as it fucking should be. Anyone who believes otherwise, IMO, needs to reevaluate their reasons for tanking and/or re-roll.

yeah I know a lot of ppl are doing what I just said but like I said you would think for a tank you need vit accessories and I use str that's why I say be different and I constantly hear healers complain about tanks dieing because they don't have a lot of hp I fail to see the problem there I use str accessories and never had a problem tanking I can mitigate dmg just fine str tanking its not my fault they fail to do there job.

I have a feeling you are one of the STR tanks that forgets tank stance on massive AoE pulls and forgets CDs for tank busters. Otherwise no healer would be complaining.

Either way, in a few weeks STR tanks and VIT tanks will be dinosaurs, there will only be good tanks doing their jobs and outputting whatever the maximum DPS is, and bad tanks doing neither of those things, and we won't be getting lost in the haze of bullshit of all this "oh well he/she was wearing xyz accessories blah blah blah herp-derp-this-that-the-other lolololol wut a scrub", and no variances in STR vs. VIT will be masking poor play. So all you truly bad tanks out there right now, whether you're in STR or VIT, you're about to get exposed.

[yondaimeflash]

Snip [/I]

Sorry to disappoint you but no I don't forget to have grit on and darkness and the occasional Blood weapon when I need to I know how to tank and not once have I ever had a healer complain ive in fact been given compliments on my Str tanking and holding big groups of Aoe's pulls

[Jpec07]

Sorry to disappoint you but no I don't forget to have grit on and darkness and the occasional Blood weapon when I need to I know how to tank and not once have I ever had a healer complain ive in fact been given compliments on my Str tanking and holding big groups of Aoe's pulls

Syz never said you did? The point of Syz' post wasn't to say that Strength tanks are inherently inferior to Vitality tanks, it was to say that the divide between them has caused more tension in the community than perhaps anything else. I've never ever seen a character of another class be berated for their choice of gear, because it's incredibly straightforward. However, for tanks, it's a no-win scenario - regardless of which set you use, you run the risk of having someone call you a bad player and tell you you're doing it wrong and need to git gud - based solely on gear. And the tension is a huge problem, because it belittles people based on gear, not on skill. Instead of berating a tank who doesn't use any cooldowns (even on big pulls), people berate tanks because they have too much HP. And that's not okay.

That entire discussion, and the insult that you perceived (that wasn't there), is going away. By scaling tank AP with Vit, they're essentially uniting the two sides of the community under the same gearing goal: aggressive tanks want more Vitality because it will make them hit harder, and defensive tanks want more Vitality because it lets them soak more damage. The "choice" that everyone seems so attached to was never really there, because no matter what you "chose," it was never the right thing by other people's standards.

[Sarcatica]

@kaisinel, Your sentiment is correct, but your attitude is horrible and annoying. You can't just say with that "clear content, then talk to me" attitude. It sucks and doesn't bring much to the table.

Not all healers are comfortable with tanks running full slaying and you have to acknowledge it.

People seem to have the misconception of the whole STR/VIT idea. The only reason why STR is way preferred nowadays is just because tanks in general realize that they don't even need that much HP to survive. Great tanks know how much fluff damage they can take without CDs and how many CDs they need to tank tankbusters and KNOWING when those CDs will come up again for the next sets of tankbusters. I personally use mostly STR accs to a great success. But that doesn't take away the fact that the huge challenge is to MAXIMIZE your potential WHILE staying alive. That comes back to what healers you are with and not how you have always played. They are not the same, nor ever will be.

[Reynhart]

The only reason why STR is way preferred nowadays is just because tanks in general realize that they don't even need that much HP to survive.

The problem is that, with competent healers, full slaying can be "enough HP" to survive. Having a big HP pool is fine, but, since it doesn't change the damage you take or the healing you receive, in the flow of combat, it doesn't matter that much. If VIT had an impact on any of those, then the sweet spot for VIT vs STR would be far more interesting.

Well, it won't matter at the end of the month, anyway...

[Shurrikhan]

If VIT had an impact on healing received or damage taken, then the sweet spot for VIT vs STR would be far more interesting.

This.

Then we'd actually have some effective choices to work from, and a stepping stone for future choices in the game, rather than further moving away from the idea of any choices whatsoever.

[yondaimeflash]

I'm full STR tank I enjoy the challenge of sacrificing my "tankiness" to output DPS that is MY choice. Honestly annoyed now that I am forced to play VIT because a bunch of crybabies have to complain.

Just nerf the shit out of all tanks at this point too. Make every skill "enhance enmity" and do only 50 potency. Cause to know we needz to hold hate and take hits. Make our CDs make us damn near invincible with out 45000k hp pools everyone thinks is required for fights. Please just break the classes more. GG!!!!

Thank YOU! that's what ive been saying this whole time. Thanks you are awesome.

[Awful]

I'm full STR tank I enjoy the challenge of sacrificing my "tankiness" to output DPS that is MY choice. Honestly annoyed now that I am forced to play VIT because a bunch of crybabies have to complain.

Just nerf the shit out of all tanks at this point too. Make every skill "enhance enmity" and do only 50 potency. Cause to know we needz to hold hate and take hits. Make our CDs make us damn near invincible with out 45000k hp pools everyone thinks is required for fights. Please just break the classes more. GG!!!!

I'm sorry but a lot of people do not enjoy sacrificing their tankiness to be a better DPS I only do it because It's the META Tanks are supposed to be tanks, and our support is providing the extra DPS when we can get away with it. Yes you can push it to the max, yes you can push the ceiling, that's a personal thing but I can't tell you how ass backwards it is to be playing a tank that does more DPS than actual DPS. These changes are needed because we are T-A-N-K-S I have my drg/smn/nin/mch if I want to DPS and it's a lot more fun than playing tank DPS that's for sure, I can't wait to see all these STR tanks QQing a storm because "it isn't like the old days I remember when I did AS1 and had to tell the monks/drgs to greed on accessories huehue" that's bad game design when I can't even NEED on the item that is BIS for my CLASS!! Just clear AS1 4 times in 4 weeks and get a free one....yay i'm glad I kept all my fending from Alex Savage because that's all I got since I couldn't roll need on my friggen accessories.

So if you wanna complain that this change is garbage you think the developers want tanks only to be doing 50 potency then you truly do not grasp these changes at all they're tweaking tanks for the better there's a ton who enjoy the DPS lifestyle but it's coming to an end and thank god because i'm tired of joining DF groups and having tanks not in tank stance pulling everything and dieing. Or when they pull the boss out of grit, create no hate and the DPS/heals die because they want to out DPS the other DPS in my group, people want to be tankier rather than deal more dmg than the actual damage dealers I know I do.

You can't please everyone but as soon as you change 1 thing people come at it like torches hope to see you on Feb 23rd for the big ol' change I welcome it and now for raid gear I can actually need on upgrades instead of saying "wellp I only need 1 more page so...yay?"