Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

[Kosmos992k]

IDK where people get this mentality. If you think healers DPSing are to blame for some DPS being bad IDK what to tell you.

Hell the people that are covering bad DPS are the good DPS lol. Just running one run with a parser tells you this, seeing one at 1000+ the other at 400 or something. Even worse in raids.

There is truth to both your statement and that of thunda_cat_smash. outside of dps sensitive end game situations, I know from personal experience as a healer that if both DDs are sub-par, or if one is bad and the other is decent, any extra DPS I put in as healer will mask the impact of the poor DD, unless someone is parsing, or watching closely, no one else will know. But in normal content,a good DD player most certainly can make up for a bad one, you're right there.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

IDK where people get this mentality. If you think healers DPSing are to blame for some DPS being bad IDK what to tell you.

Hell the people that are covering bad DPS are the good DPS lol. Just running one run with a parser tells you this, seeing one at 1000+ the other at 400 or something. Even worse in raids.

Simply put, I've seen it happen again and again, as tank, healer and DPS. There's always a DPS that when you call out their rotation, will always reply th at they don't need to do anything different because, "Strength tank and DPSing healer. We good bruh." So long as the healer meta remains a thing, Dps, which have always had the fewest responsibilities, will continue to pass off their only responsibility to others.

[Lexia]

Oh god, not this stupidity again. Dealing damage as a healer is a nice to have.

Rule #1 before demanding a healer also does damage, you better make damn sure you're rotation is close to optimal.
Rule #2 before demanding tanks use STR gear and dps stance, you better make damn sure you're rotation is close to optional.

Outside of end-game content the only Damage Dealers whining about healer dps, or tanks not using their dps stance are poor at their job and just looking for someone to cover their ass.

This is true cause cause if the dps not putting out the best they can they can't really complain because then the healer dps is not really adding anything to the party is just making up for what the dps is not putting out.

[alex4815162342]

Dps, which have always had the fewest responsibilities, will continue to pass off their only responsibility to others.

Ah come on ! It's a team work ! You need Tank, heal and Dps !
How many macanics Dps have to deal with ? A lot !
How about the dps check without dps ?
Stop saying that dps had fewest responzibilities

[Jynx]

Oh god, not this stupidity again. Dealing damage as a healer is a nice to have.

As far as pre-endgame dungeons go having a DPS who can actually do GOOD damage is also just "nice to have" as the DPS thresholds for these dungeons is next to auto-attacking everything.

It's a double edged sword to say your DPS is not required when in reality neither is the DPS's needed to do anywhere near their potential to complete duty finder content. I'm not defending lazy players they are plague and hurt the community, but it's part of the base design of the game that allows them to be like this. The problem needs to be dealt with at it's source not on the surface.

[tjw]

Ah come on ! It's a team work ! You need Tank, heal and Dps !
How many macanics Dps have to deal with ? A lot !
How about the dps check without dps ?
Stop saying that dps had fewest responzibilities

That's exactly the point. Bad DPS are passing off their 'DPS' responsibilities either to their fellow DPS or the healer and tank to make up for their lack of DPS and mechanic awareness.

Healers and tanks also have to deal with mechanics. That goes for any party, so that's a moot thing. That leaves DPS checks as the DPS responsibility, and guess what responsibility bad DPS are passing onto the other roles?

Thing is, they're the only role that can do that and get away with it. A healer can't pass off the healer responsibilities to the tank or DPS. A tank can't pass of the tanking responsibilities to a healer or DPS.

[Talas-Wolvenfang]

As a tank and a healer I think of this as two positives.
One: Tanks can still dish out a bit more DPS than without the VIT Buff update(more or less than pre-3.2 slaying accessories setup, we don't know).
Two: Healers will be able to dish out even more damage before needing to turn off cleric stance. Currently as tank i switch between Slaying and Fending accessories, but that's only depending on how good the healer is and/or how much the healer is actually DPS'ing in addition. If they aren't DPS'ing at all and mostly focusing on healing i'll mostly wear slaying. If they are DPS'ing plenty, i'll wear more fending than slaying or even full fending, because really how much more DPS would I be adding as a tank on individual mobs compared to throwing gravity or holy over multiple of them from the healer, if the healer is too busy keeping me alive due to my low HP to even DPS?

I've had runs as Healer where I barely was able to keep up with healing the tank let alone add DPS damage because the tank decides to mass pull monsters in expert with an average of ilevel 175 "left side" gear and average 185 full slaying accessories.

I don't mind this current "Slayer Tank" trend as long as you're sensible enough as a tank to keep in mind your healer can dish out plenty of DPS too in addition. In the end it's all about team effort within the content; How much DPS can *WE* dish out to get through this as fast as possible. Not "How much DPS can *I* dish out as a Tank, never mind the healer's DPS output coz i want to be a DPS tank.

[Ibi]

Yea, my concern is...

Right now, let's say that STR is 1, and VIT is 0. VIT is 0 because VIT has 0 effect on your Damage. STR affects it by 1 Per 1 (arbitrary number for example alone.)

So, "The effect of Strength on physical attack ptoency will be reduced"

What this can mean is:

STr becomes .5, instead of 1.

"Making it so vitality affects the potency of physical attacks

VIT Becomes .5, instead of 0.

What I want to know is like, raw nubmers I guess. I doubt they'll make STR=0 in this scenario, because that'd make half the stats on our gear useless.

I made a couple of charts to take a look at this yesterday.

This first chart shows how tank damage would change if:

1. A full i210 tank switches from full STR (Slaying accessories and STR bonus points) in 3.1 to full VIT (Fending accessories and VIT bonus points) in 3.2, and
2. The only thing that SE changes for tank damage is the weights of VIT (currently 0.0) and STR (currently 1.0).

The red region indicates that tank damage would be higher than a full STR tank today. I think it’s safe to say that’s not going to happen.

The orange region indicates that tank damage would be lower than a full STR tank today, but higher than a full VIT tank today. I suspect this is also unlikely.

The yellow region indicates that tank damage would be within 75% of a full VIT tank today. Given that tank damage is probably closer to DPS damage than it should be and that SE have indicated they’re increasing the enmity modifiers for tanks (which, given they’re fine where they are now, implies tank damage will decrease), this seems like a likely proposition.

The white region indicates that tank damage would be below 75% of a full VIT tank today. This seems very unlikely, given how much tanks would then struggle in any kind of solo content.

This second chart removes the two least probable regions indicated above and looks at how the different accessories that are currently available (i210 STR, i210 VIT, i150 penta-melded) would stack up at each weighting:



The red region this time indicates that i210 Slaying accessories would remain the best accessories for increasing tank damage. Given that this is what SE are trying to avoid, we can probably safely discount this region.

The white region this time indicates that i150 penta-melded accessories would become the best accessories for increasing tank damage. Although that’s somewhat of a temporary problem, given that future crafted accessories will not accept primary stats for overmelding, it’s not insignificant, since most people wait until they’ve finished their left-side upgrades before working on accessories, so with poor luck it could be some time before a tank replaces their accessories.

The yellow region this time indicates that i210 Fending accessories would become the best accessories for increasing tank damage. This seems like the most favorable outcome, since it encourages tanks to wear Fending in all situations.

With all that in mind, I’d expect to see us ending up with somewhere in the lower left of that yellow area on the second chart.

[Kotemon]

snip.

Don't forget the impending adjustment to melding accessories. It's going to be so you can only main stat the available slots and all over-melds are left for secondary. So likely that means no more +5 combo of Str, Vit, Dex etc.. on right side (still wondering if piety is a secondary or primary. Let alone how this applies to crafting and gathering melds.)

[FoxyAreku]

It's pretty great, literally no downside to it.