I just realised... are we L'cie? [Possible 3.2 spoilers]

[Atoli]

XIV will end up somewhere, eventually, but right now surrendering yourself to a higher will is shown as always the correct "choice", so it hasn't actually chosen anything yet. I tell myself "soon" every patch.

Are we really, though?
All we know so far about what Hydaelyn wants from us is to stop "the darkness", aka Zodiark and his followers. But we haven't been in contact with Zodiark himself yet nor have we done much for her cause except for defeating some of the Ascians, and even that happened more for worldly reasons than for Hydaelyn's cause.
If the one who possessed Thancred, or the ones who manipulated others against us, or the one who talked Thordan into doing stupid things were just normal human bad guys or some unrelated Voidsent, we would have fought and killed them all the same.

For all the talk about actively seeking out and destroying Ascians when Moenbryda came to visit, we haven't really done anything. We just tend to stumble over them most of the time...x)

[Fenral]

To be fair, it's only been shown outright twice. Once with Minfilia at the end of 2.55, and the other in a major side-story in 2.5, where the presence of some higher will was stated to have immediate precedence over any individual desires of the person being commanded, and that sacrifice was presented as the "correct" option (with no pause given to consider alternatives). Honestly, twice is enough for it to leave a bad aftertaste, especially in that quick succession.

[Atoli]

I'm not sure which sidequest you are talking about. Could you be more specific please?
If you want to keep the thread spoilerfree (even though it has 3.2 spoiler warning in the title xD) you can use the [ hb ] tag^^

[Kotemon]

So.. is Minfilia turning into our non combat version of Lion, in a dress?

[Fenral]

I'm not sure which sidequest you are talking about. Could you be more specific please?
If you want to keep the thread spoilerfree (even though it has 3.2 spoiler warning in the title xD) you can use the [ hb ] tag^^

The Crystal Tower story ends with a three-hit combo of heroic sacrifices to the tune of "destiny says so." And to keep it from being a "sad" ending, everyone immediately bounces back to say how great destiny is.

Wish I were kidding, but anyway, it happened, and the intricacies therein are not really part of the discussion here, except as an illustration of XIV's current stance on destiny. Which isn't great.

[Cilia]

Well... there's similarities, but I wouldn't say we're l'Cie in the same way they were presented in FNC. All l'Cie are branded and punished for failing their mission (and arguably punished for succeeding). 1.x Warriors of Light to have a special brand they can turn on and off, but there doesn't seem to be a way to fail our mission except by dying in the course of carrying it out. We also don't seem to have an end in sight, unless killing all the Ascians is the goal, but if the Warrior of Darkness' Echo vision is anything to go by that's not the case...

Erm. Back on point. I've argued about it before but there are similarities; we're shackled to a fate we might not want or have asked for, much like l'Cie, but similarities end pretty much there. The fal'Cie of FNC (and indeed all but one of the true deities) were absolute jackasses, using people to commit genocide since they couldn't do so themselves. In contrast, Hydaelyn is at least painted as having our best interests at heart, and even if she's shackled us to a fate we did not ask for, does her best to help us when she can and offers some guidance on occasion instead of just giving a vague vision and telling us to go accomplish it (or: intervenes in the corporeal world to spare you from Ultima).

[Februs]

XIV will end up somewhere, eventually, but right now surrendering yourself to a higher will is shown as always the correct "choice", so it hasn't actually chosen anything yet. I tell myself "soon" every patch.

Actually, some of those games do actually have direct lore links to these themes (man vs god. Chosen on a divine quest. Following divine will etc). Those links are just not fully explored by their MSQ's.

FFVIII is definitely an exception, because the quest is most certainly human-given, even if you follow the deep lore. The conflict follows the same theme (man vs god, where "god" has a stand-in via sorceresses), because the fight against the sorceresses is a continuation of the human war against the god, Hyne. That conflict was initiated by Hyne (he started it by burning human children), however the quest to continue hunting for the pieces of Hyne (sorceresses) was human given.

IX, however, is kind of a middle ground between a divine quest and a man made quest in that it is extremely thematic. It's definitely one of my favorite spins on the theme. As you say, Zidane is un-chosen, in that he begins as a chosen one of Tera, is cast out by Kuja into Gaia, and returns as the unlikely hero of Gaia against Tera (keep in mind that Tera and Gaia are both Mother Crystals in the lore of FFIX). However, the story is ultimately about the triumph of life over death, and it ends with the heroes facing Necron, who seeks to destroy life.

Though the crystal never explicitly chooses Zidane and crew to defend it (via a divine voice speaking to you or some other such nonsense), it's thematically implied that you are the unlikely chosen hero in the final scenes before the fight in which your fallen party members pass on their life source to you so that you can defeat Necron. It's also implied by the final dialogue between Necron and Zidane, in which Zidane references immortal memory as a reason for overcoming death. In FFIX the mother crystal isn't really a character so much as it is an amalgamation of life and the memories of past lives. At the end of the game, Zidane and party are the representation of that life's desire to keep on living. So, in a sense, they are given their quest by life itself, which is the mother crystal. It's extremely thematic writing, and was a nice change from the blatant "I am thou god. Do my bidding!" kind of quests we're used to.

XII, as well, has a fairly interesting twist in that you're not playing the chosen at all, in that game. You're basically playing the bystander or even the villain.

The story is still about a conflict between man and. god. Not only is there the massive backstory behind the Espers having a rebellion against the gods that formed them, but Vayne's and Cid's ambitions were tied to the goal of freeing mankind from having a fate guided by the hands of the Occuria (Aka "The Undying"). Their goal was to cut off Ivalice's connection to the Occuria, basically continuing the rebellion of the espers. They were actually given this goal by one of The Undying (the rebellious one who speaks to Cid and makes him look insane) in the first place. As such, they were following divine will. Vayne, however, had plans of his own and sought to realize both his goal and the god's at the same time.

In that regard, we are actually playing the "villains" in that game, which is very interesting. Only, by the end, we become the "alternative" instead. This is all a little difficult to gather from the plot, though, because the main characters are almost singularly focused on their human war and saving the kingdom. They tend to overlook the involvement of the divine, and our hand in the divine quest is one of unknowing opposition.

The problem with FFXIV, so far, is that Hydaelyn does not seem to really have an agenda of her own. As of yet, she has primarily been shown as a reactionary character. She never takes initiative (other than to guide us a little through echo vision). Instead, she simply shows up to give a helping hand when we are in dire need. In that regard, the war between Hydaelyn and Zodiark seems awfully one-sided. Zodiark has absolutely no presence whatsoever, but his followers are constantly on the assault. Hydaelyn, on the other hand, seems to do nothing until she is forced to defend. It's hard to say that she's really given us a "quest" so to speak, because a quest requires pro-active action. We do have a goal, kind of (defend against the dark!), but that goal is extremely ambiguous and most of our actions are guided by humans rather than the divine. More often than not, we tend to just stumble into the divine part of it. So, I, like you, am still waiting for this to go somewhere...

[Fenral]

Erm. Back on point. I've argued about it before but there are similarities; we're shackled to a fate we might not want or have asked for, much like l'Cie, but similarities end pretty much there.

This. It's only a regular topic for discussion because themes of destiny and free will are dancing around and we don't actually know which side of the fence we've been on the entire time. Obviously, when someone says "help me, oh warrior of light" you aren't just going to ignore them (unless you're at Moghome), but that title has kind of thrown everything into question. Are we following a specific plan, or was Hydaelyn's plan simply empowering one individual, who was already compulsively incapable of refusing to help anyone, and letting them guarantee her "ideal" world one Q-shaped bubble at a time.

snip

All valid points, but for most of them (especially IX), what matters most to me is that the characters are doing what they would be doing anyway. Zidane wanted to stop/save Kuja, and by the time Necron showed up, like hell he was going to just lay down and die. It's funny to see modern Japanese writers try and deconstruct the "will to live" as some dangerous evil, because I really think Sakaguchi had the right of it.

[Chewy2nd]

It's worth remembering that l'cie were also in Type-0, and in that game, the Fal'cie were actually the crystals of each city, and were pretty much tasked with keeping that crystal in particular safe.

[Februs]

All valid points, but for most of them (especially IX), what matters most to me is that the characters are doing what they would be doing anyway. Zidane wanted to stop/save Kuja, and by the time Necron showed up, like hell he was going to just lay down and die. It's funny to see modern Japanese writers try and deconstruct the "will to live" as some dangerous evil, because I really think Sakaguchi had the right of it.

I definitely agree. Sakaguchi is a talented writer/director. One of the reasons I appreciated the plot of FFIX (besides the thematic undertones, subtext, and overall aesthetic) was that it celebrated the most basic facet of life, which was actually wanting to live.