Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Nicolepwned]

Thunder in BLM opener is a DPS loss.

[SixtyLove]

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

This.

Sadly, this is not something that can be fixed by the community, and those who do try will have difficulty trying to encourage and improve anyone who does not want to be helped. I was in an FC on Zodiark where after the release of HW there was a growing atmosphere of "well I got 60 first / got LAW gear first / beat A1N first" all from DPS players with poor rotation, and an unwillingness to improve as players. These players would also fail to complete boss mechanics properly due to them all starting well into the life cycle of ARR which meant they got a lot of carries through the level 50 post game content (LoTA / ST / Dungeons) by those in Ironworks gear where partial zergs were becomming the norm.

We did an FC run on Odin for people to get a clear. On my Yasha geared DRG I outdpsed 2 ninjas and a MNK who had a mix of EST tome gear and Alexander drops ....this was purely because I took the time to learn my job, rotation and to actually move out of AOE's to give healers an easier time. This is something that a lot of our newer players of DPS classes just can't be bothered with becaese "lewl soon there will be ilvl230 gear and we can zerg lolz". That is a sad reality to be honest with you, but it has to be expected. Dodging and mechanics aren't even that hard if you at least try, but a lot of players have been taught to not worry about the mechanics and so here we are. The irony is that one of those Ninja's asked me if I was scared of Alexander because I didn't attempt it on day one, unlike him.... however our FC leader was hounded by other players from the PF groups he joined because he was so bad at his job and would get himself one shotted/cause wipes/always be KO'd. I prefer to learn the strat for raid and gear appropriately before I attempt something, so I can pull my weight and not get a carry. If you know my DRG, then you know I'm no floor tanker.

You can't make those poor or unwilling types of players better because unfortunately their entitled attitude to 'play how I want' has been solidified by the ability to be carried through a lot of content by those of us who have been around since launch. The crux of the matter is, why should they learn when everyone else can do it for them? This is something that is encroached within the design of the game itself, so as a community we can all only do so much.

[bardaboo]

Thunder in BLM opener is a DPS loss.

Unless you are hardcasting it as tank pulls. I've gotten 2 TC procs during my opener and still managed to get my eno refreshed. There's plenty of time on the first eno.

[Waliel]

Direct from a search for BLM level 60 rotation per Reddit. Are you implying that such research may be misleading? I certainly could agree.

That would be it.

It's correct to using thunder for opener (at level 60). My spouse is doing blizzard 3 -> thunder then enochian stuff. Also never use scathes lol.

Please stop doing that; B3 opener is a relic of the past. It's at best as good as the regular 6xF4 opener and at worst just plainly worse. It's also longer, which makes it impossible to do in some fights, Thordan and A3S namely, and more error-prone to random target AoEs.

Unless you are hardcasting it as tank pulls. I've gotten 2 TC procs during my opener and still managed to get my eno refreshed. There's plenty of time on the first eno.

Or you could spend that time casting F1 or F3 depending on what opener you're doing and TC procs aren't always even a DPS upgrade if used immediately.

[Nicolepwned]

The general consensus among raiding BLMs is that the correct opener spell is either Fire 3 or a Sharp Fire. Thunder procs take the space of a Fire 4, and especially in the first Astral rotation is a DPS loss. Any BLM worth their salt will tell you that Thunder is only useful as a filler after going into Umbral, niched inbetween Bliz 3 and Bliz 4.

[Tanathya]

Isn't there a thread that's exclusively about BLM rotations?

[Artemiz]

I've posted in this thread defending the BLM, in my mind I can see why a new BLM would struggle with the fire 4 rotation in the fight in question and I also know some BLM's ignore the 60 rotation when first getting to 60 in fights they don't know yet. It's not what I did but I do have some sympathy with their reasoning.
That said however I've just had a Nevereap run collapse because the BRD, with his 9.5k hp had a Novus weapon. The DRG "DC'd" on the first trash pack, his replacement took one look at the BRD and bailed, followed by the healer. The BRD's reasoning was that he'd returned to the game and hadn't geared up yet. Considering he could have gotten a much better weapon for 20k from a number of vendors on his way from 50-60 that's not good enough and I can understand why some get very frustrated with those kind of attitudes. Some people just really don't try and that's why these threads hit 80 pages.

In contrast to him, I wouldn't even go near 60 content on my PLD until I'd got ilvl 180+ with a 200 weapon, not because of the instance but because I knew I'd have to keep hate from ilvl 210's. I'm not saying be that anal but if people would meet me in the middle I'd be happy.

[DPZ2]

In contrast to him, I wouldn't even go near 60 content on my PLD until I'd got ilvl 180+ with a 200 weapon, not because of the instance but because I knew I'd have to keep hate from ilvl 210's. I'm not saying be that anal but if people would meet me in the middle I'd be happy.

I am extremely curious about how long it took you to get to what you consider '60 content', given that you'd be stuck in ilevel 145 gear until you reached your goal.

There is flaw as egregious as that of your BRD when, in order to accomodate up to 3 over-geared players, it is you who have to perform above-and-beyond the designed ilevels for those instances.

The game does not require you to be in ilevel 180+ gear for any of the level 60 dungeon instances to date, nor Void Ark. Why should the onus be placed upon a properly geared tank to perform better than any tank did when the other players first went through those instances?

[Tanathya]

Snip

A Novus weapon using BRD. No excuses, no counter arguments there.

[DPZ2]

A Novus weapon using BRD. No excuses, no counter arguments there.

Did you read my post? Was it denying the validity of the other posters opinion about BRD using Novus? Was there a counter-argument about the BRD?

Didn't think so.