Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Tanathya]

Snip

It doesn't matter how long it might take you to gear. Using a lv50 weapon in a lv60 dungeon is unacceptable no matter what.

Am I asking here for anybody to overgear anything? I don't think so.

[Jynx]

It doesn't matter how long it might take you to gear. Using a lv50 weapon in a lv60 dungeon is unacceptable no matter what.

Am I asking here for anybody to overgear anything? I don't think so.

Did they meet the minimum Ilvl required? Then they are allowed to que in the duty finder. You agree to the rules when you sign up and 5he rule is your jumping into a dungeon with unknown players with unknown gear and play styles who may or may not have the same opinions as you on gameplay.

Should they use a lvl 50 weapon? No. Do the developers allow them? Yes.

Hold the real responsible party accountable.

[Archaell]

Did they meet the minimum Ilvl required? Then they are allowed to que in the duty finder. You agree to the rules when you sign up and 5he rule is your jumping into a dungeon with unknown players with unknown gear and play styles who may or may not have the same opinions as you on gameplay.

Should they use a lvl 50 weapon? No. Do the developers allow them? Yes.

Hold the real responsible party accountable.

I have to wonder... doesn't the game allow you to meet the ilevel requirements while wearing the disciple of hand gear?

[Tanathya]

Snip

Then again, what does that have to do with the fact that the player was using a very poor excuse? I could very well get into a 210 party on my ilv200 WHM using 210 accessories.

Edit: The real responsible party accountable is the player, and the player alone. We're aiming to the bare minimum yet again. I can't blame my boss for hiring an useless co-worker just because they've got a huge resumé, though I can blame him for not firing them. Now, swap boss for party, co-worker for member, resumé for ilv, and you've got the very same situation extrapolated.

[Kaurie]

I'm what they call a Aero-Stone only White Mage. I've slotted 210 INT accessories on, and didn't bother to upgrade my left side past 130, due to MND being totally useless. When in dungeons, I don't like to heal, so I just spam my stone I (best on MP) and Aero skill.

[Wadey]

I just got out of a level 60 roulette in Neverreap with myself (MNK), BRD, DRK, WHM.

The BRD was pulling around 400-450 dps overall, and frankly their numbers on boss fights were just embarrassing. They were around ilvl 175-180 I would estimate, a few lower ilvl bits but mostly law gear and above. The DRK was doing similar, or even slightly more damage but he's there to tank so fair enough, and WHM was one of the breed who would rather stand there doing nothing, waiting for someone's HP to drop, instead of tossing out a few DPS spells (imo, incredibly lazy, but that's another debate entirely).

I was carrying that run. It took painfully long, far longer than I, and I'm sure they, would have liked. I'm not expecting them to do as much DPS as me with the gear difference, I'm full i210, but good lord, please at least perform to a reasonable standard, i.e. using your abilities (turn on Wanderer's Minuet for goodness sake), using AOE where appropriate, please do more than just auto attack and press whatever buttons your lazy fingers hover over. Do some form of rotation.

More than anything else, I think it's just selfish to deliberately perform under your potential. I don't think anybody expects Alex Savage quality play when they queue in Duty Finder, but I think it's more than reasonable to expect your fellow DPS (and tank, and healer) to at least make an effort.

It disappoints me that it seems a lot of people don't feel the same way.

[TheUltimateSeph]

I just got out of a level 60 roulette in Neverreap with myself (MNK), BRD, DRK, WHM.

The BRD was pulling around 400-450 dps overall, and frankly their numbers on boss fights were just embarrassing. They were around ilvl 175-180 I would estimate, a few lower ilvl bits but mostly law gear and above. The DRK was doing similar, or even slightly more damage but he's there to tank so fair enough, and WHM was one of the breed who would rather stand there doing nothing, waiting for someone's HP to drop, instead of tossing out a few DPS spells (imo, incredibly lazy, but that's another debate entirely).

I was carrying that run. It took painfully long, far longer than I, and I'm sure they, would have liked. I'm not expecting them to do as much DPS as me with the gear difference, I'm full i210, but good lord, please at least perform to a reasonable standard, i.e. using your abilities (turn on Wanderer's Minuet for goodness sake), using AOE where appropriate, please do more than just auto attack and press whatever buttons your lazy fingers hover over. Do some form of rotation.

More than anything else, I think it's just selfish to deliberately perform under your potential. I don't think anybody expects Alex Savage quality play when they queue in Duty Finder, but I think it's more than reasonable to expect your fellow DPS (and tank, and healer) to at least make an effort.

It disappoints me that it seems a lot of people don't feel the same way.

You know I have to wonder, since parsers are against the Terms of Service, being third party software and all, and the only way you can really know how much dps you are doing is with a parser (please don't try to tell me you actually go add up all the damage and work out the times manually from your log after dungeons, no one is stupid enough to believe that) isn't mentioning numbers and such about how much dps you are doing or someone else is doing pretty much admitting you broke the ToS? I honestly don't see how this is acceptable. I understand they have sort of a Don't Ask Don't Tell attitude towards parsers right now but some of you guys seem to blatantly advertise your use of them.

[Wadey]

You know I have to wonder, since parsers are against the Terms of Service, being third party software and all, and the only way you can really know how much dps you are doing is with a parser (please don't try to tell me you actually go add up all the damage and work out the times manually from your log after dungeons, no one is stupid enough to believe that) isn't mentioning numbers and such about how much dps you are doing or someone else is doing pretty much admitting you broke the ToS? I honestly don't see how this is acceptable. I understand they have sort of a Don't Ask Don't Tell attitude towards parsers right now but some of you guys seem to blatantly advertise your use of them.

Even if I wasn't using a parser, it was flat out obvious how pitiful their damage was.

I never once mentioned to anyone in the group I was parsing; I use the parser for my own benefit, it pushes me to do better DPS myself, improve my rotation and just be an all around better player. The fact I can see just how downright lazy people are being is a side effect. I wouldn't ever call anyone out in a dungeon. I would never name and shame someone on the forums.

Ergo; I'm fully aware using parsers is wrong in the eyes of SE. I don't agree with their policy having played several other MMOs that allow parser use freely. That doesn't excuse laziness and downright selfish play in dungeons.

[TheUltimateSeph]

Even if I wasn't using a parser, it was flat out obvious how pitiful their damage was.

I never once mentioned to anyone in the group I was parsing; I use the parser for my own benefit, it pushes me to do better DPS myself, improve my rotation and just be an all around better player. The fact I can see just how downright lazy people are being is a side effect. I wouldn't ever call anyone out in a dungeon. I would never name and shame someone on the forums.

Ergo; I'm fully aware using parsers is wrong in the eyes of SE. I don't agree with their policy having played several other MMOs that allow parser use freely. That doesn't excuse laziness and downright selfish play in dungeons.

I was mainly referring to the use of the parser itself, even if only for personal benefit. I wouldn't think you were trying to shame anyone. Though SE really needs to get their act together with this and decide if they are going to actively enforce punishment for those who break their ToS or not. If they aren't going to consistently enforce punishment then they need to make an official statement allowing the use of parsers. Selectively enforcing rules is worse then having no rules at all.

As long as you aren't being a dingleberry in game, they don't seem to mind. Also advertising the sites here can get you in trouble. The won't act especially since he had not come right out and said he used one. If you listen to Yoshi's response about them, its fairly clear he sees their uses and even uses them. It's just that they can't back up third party programs. Nice little bit of fear mongering there though.


Tbh, a parser is one of the few things that will help the game advance mechanics and skill wise right now. If they keep down the current road, its just going to be more of the same nerf after nerf, and duties at level 50 will have the same difficulty level as level 70 or even 80 duties. This striking dummy thing seems to be less than a half measure, it would be nice if it at the very least showed the user their own dps, so they can see by a metric the difference.

Sorry that wasn't supposed to be fear mongering. Didn't mean for it to come off that way. Just the way SE handles the situation feels hypocritical and makes me mad.

[Whiteroom]

I was mainly referring to the use of the parser itself, even if only for personal benefit. I wouldn't think you were trying to shame anyone. Though SE really needs to get their act together with this and decide if they are going to actively enforce punishment for those who break their ToS or not. If they aren't going to consistently enforce punishment then they need to make an official statement allowing the use of parsers. Selectively enforcing rules is worse then having no rules at all.






Sorry that wasn't supposed to be fear mongering. Didn't mean for it to come off that way. Just the way SE handles the situation feels hypocritical and makes me mad.

It's not hypocritical at all. They are stuck with it due to an umbrella statement in the ToS. They aren't against parsers at all, just when someone starts abusing them, they act. They can't endorse a product not made by them is all. Tbh, I wish they would just get on with implementing one of their own, I would really like to be able to see my numbers on PS4 for myself, rather than badgering some PC player to tell me my numbers. I want to be able to see what works best with different phases in different fights so I can bring the most to my team.

What I find lame is how people twist them not being allowed due to third party programming into "The Devs obviously agree that parsers are The Devil at work!"

I also dislike how Yoshi kid gloves the community and think in the long run it will damage the game more than help it.