If tank damage is now based on VIT, why do healers still have Cleric Stance?

[Fatestorm]

We have a lot of Cleric Stance lovers in this thread.

The point of my comparison is, again, more something like this.

Tanks rarely swap between stances mid-battle. Before everyone chimes in and tells me about the time their WAR turned on Deliverance to help with the DPS check in savage, I get that it HAPPENS, I'm just saying its rare, usually a tank is in a particular stance. Further, when tanks do switch stance--let's say, from Tank to DPS--they don't become fragile wallflowers that die in one hit, they are still hardy with a lot of HP, just squishier and can't take huge tankbusters.

The stance swap mechanic with healer, on the other hand, is meant to be in and out of the Cleric Stance many times mid-battle. Further it's very dangerous. (At least for all the unskilled pleb healers who don't have the mechanics on lock huehue amirite guise?) While a tank in a DPS stance can still generally take hits alright, a healer in Cleric Stance just CANNOT cure effectively at ALL.

If we really want to talk about leveling the playing field, it's not enough just to point out "there are stances"--we have to think about how those stances are actually used in play.

[Fatestorm]

Why healer still have cleric stance?
Because no healer equiped int accessories instead of mind accessories for more damage

You're right, but that's precisely because the existence of Cleric Stance never made that choice a temptation. If Cleric Stance didn't swap INT and MND values, and was instead just a potency swap, I guarantee you there would be healers rolling with INT accessories. Just as if--I'm not quite sure how to put this--if the tank DPS stances did something like "Converts 20% of VIT value into STR value" or something like that, tanks would already be running Fending Accessories.

[Kaze3434]

You're right, but that's precisely because the existence of Cleric Stance never made that choice a temptation. If Cleric Stance didn't swap INT and MND values, and was instead just a potency swap, I guarantee you there would be healers rolling with INT accessories. Just as if--I'm not quite sure how to put this--if the tank DPS stances did something like "Converts 20% of VIT value into STR value" or something like that, tanks would already be running Fending Accessories.

i had a co-healer that was wearing all int acc in a ravana once. his heals were 1500 less then mine, and his dmg was less then mine. no one in their right mind would gimp themselves on their primary job for something like that.

[Saccharin]

We have a lot of Cleric Stance lovers in this thread.

The point of my comparison is, again, more something like this.

Tanks rarely swap between stances mid-battle. Before everyone chimes in and tells me about the time their WAR turned on Deliverance to help with the DPS check in savage, I get that it HAPPENS, I'm just saying its rare, usually a tank is in a particular stance. Further, when tanks do switch stance--let's say, from Tank to DPS--they don't become fragile wallflowers that die in one hit, they are still hardy with a lot of HP, just squishier and can't take huge tankbusters.

The stance swap mechanic with healer, on the other hand, is meant to be in and out of the Cleric Stance many times mid-battle. Further it's very dangerous. (At least for all the unskilled pleb healers who don't have the mechanics on lock huehue amirite guise?) While a tank in a DPS stance can still generally take hits alright, a healer in Cleric Stance just CANNOT cure effectively at ALL.

If we really want to talk about leveling the playing field, it's not enough just to point out "there are stances"--we have to think about how those stances are actually used in play.

The point of this change is to force tanks into using tanking (fending) accessories.

The reason tanks chose strength is because it does more damage so if they move more damage onto vit then tanks will now favour fending accessories.

It's not complicated.

It's basically a sticking plaster to a broken itemisation system where actual tank stats, or stat, parry, is close to useless; the trade off of survival of parry is so small compared to the extra damage from strength.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

You\\'re right, but that\\'s precisely because the existence of Cleric Stance never made that choice a temptation. If Cleric Stance didn\\'t swap INT and MND values, and was instead just a potency swap, I guarantee you there would be healers rolling with INT accessories. Just as if--I\\'m not quite sure how to put this--if the tank DPS stances did something like "Converts 20% of VIT value into STR value" or something like that, tanks would already be running Fending Accessories.

Except they wouldn't because their left side gear has no INT so you'd be doing as much damage as some level 40 BLM.

Whereas tanks have STR/VIT on all left side gear so that both are at similar levels without accessories.

My SCH has like 174 INT. With full INT accessories, I'd be looking at around 420 INT.

Meanwhile, Cleric Stance swaps my 1000+ MND to INT. Huge difference buddy. Apples to oranges

[Zeonx]

I am glad, cause paladins who used nothing but strength were no good, they sit there and gloat about damage and how fast the fight goes but end up dying.
You'll get a few that will say not true but it is 100% of the time.

then blame the healer, not the healers fault that paladins have low HP and get beat down badly.

My cousin did all vit tank and sits on 20k hp and if the party dies sometimes he survives even to defeat the boss by himself if he gets lucky.

No strength paladin can do that and so I am glad they are removing the strength.

[Pence]

I am glad, cause paladins who used nothing but strength were no good, they sit there and gloat about damage and how fast the fight goes but end up dying.
You'll get a few that will say not true but it is 100% of the time.

then blame the healer, not the healers fault that paladins have low HP and get beat down badly.

My cousin did all vit tank and sits on 20k hp and if the party dies sometimes he survives even to defeat the boss by himself if he gets lucky.

No strength paladin can do that and so I am glad they are removing the strength.

You're right. STR tanks are so bad. They do not help as much as VIT tanks.

OR your cousin is just a bad if he can't handle being a STR tank.

[Zeonx]

You're right. STR tanks are so bad. They do not help as much as VIT tanks.

OR your cousin is just a bad if he can't handle being a STR tank.

Na he doesn't care about dpsing when hes got a dragoon a tank is a tank also hes been a tank in FFXI also.

He can hold his own.

[Pence]

Na he doesn't care about dpsing when hes got a dragoon a tank is a tank also hes been a tank in FFXI also.

He can hold his own.

No. He can't his own. He coasts by and not playing the job to his full potential. He's a leech. Simple as. The trinity is 'less trinity' than you and he believe. It's more Tank/DPS - DPS - Heal/DPS. You're given the tools, opportunity and gear to accomplish your main role and DPS with no problem. With this update I believe you'll see more an emphasis on tank DPS - as SE has now provided a simple and straight forward gearing towards it and will be including it in their calculations / DPS checks.

[Zeonx]

snip

He can probably tank you under the table, he heals himself so their goes your leech theory.

While Strength tanks are more closer to dying which the healer is healing him alone while others are dying by the time they reach others the tank is dead.
While healer can focus on others while a vit tank can take some punishment.

He can probably tank you under the table.
I have seen him survive without healers and kill bosses by himself by using absorbing mp moves and healing himself.

If you ask me a strength tank is more of a leech.

If he is closer to dying all the time how is a healer going to take and heal everyone else before that tank dies?
I hear it all the time how they blame healer that they should be good enough you need to watch their mp then cause it goes quick.

The AOE healing? Cause if so then strength tank is more of a leech, my cousin actually had to go and grab his tank a few times because strength tanks bounce cause they die too much and cannot handle the fact that they are supposed to be vit or cut in half not full strength.

Sounds to me you are just a bit upset about them taking strength away, also about DPS it doesn't matter you all think it does because you wanna get the run done as fast as you can but its not moving cause you're dying.

Especially when we wanna rush the bees in the new dungeon and try to break the wall how fast strength tanks die is laughable.

while a vit tank can get through the run smoothly and grab a huge pile of monsters while a strength tank cannot and you talk about rushing a dungeon.