Raiding and Teamspeak.

[Cynric]

snip.

It's obvious why you don't understand. You use voice chat and are fully capable of using voice chat and, you refuse to look past how you feel about it.

Your line of thinking is what proves it. "The point of voice chat is cohesion ,not to exclude someone" you say, then go on to say "whats the point of push to talk if you're going to have to type it out"
If you don't want to exclude anyone you make sure your team is on the same page regardless of whether they chose to be on TS or not, if that means typing out something you just said then you do so. That's what makes a good team. Willing to do things to help everyone succeed without pushing them.

In your line of thinking. What's the point in me calling out Petrifaction. Can you not read the cast bar that says Petrifaction is casting? Why do you need me to tell you to turn around every single time? You are privy to the exact same information I am on my screen.

It's all about what you're comfortable with, some people love voice chat. Some people can't do it. If you really want to succeed as a raid group, and as a real team, you have to learn to give leeway to people to help them feel comfortable. If someone is anxious the whole time during a raid because they're on voice chat , that becomes a problem. If it means you have to type out a couple of things, then you're going to have to sacrifice those few moments it takes to answer a couple of questions for the success of the group as a whole.

You ask the question of why should you have to type it to them?

I ask the question of ,why I should have to call out a mechanic that everyone can see if they're paying attention.

Voice chat isn't the end all be all. You just assume it is because you make use of it.

You want to be a good team and there's an amazing player that can't use voice chat? You either take the player, or you can try to find someone else who does use voice chat. But if you turn down that player for a worse one, what did you accomplish in progression for your group? Did you really do everything you could ? Or did you just do what is more "comfortable for you" because using voice is comfortable to you.

Well guess what? When they told you No to using teamspeak? They also did what was more comfortable for them by telling you they refuse.

Someone has to compromise somewhere. And me personally? I'd rather type out things to a good /fun /nice player, then callout things to a bad/toxic/ or a player who isn't willing to learn.

You can either learn to compromise or you don't. But don't assume that any of this has to do with VOIP.

VOIP is just a tool. The person using the tool is the one determining the way its used. Thus any exclusion is in fault of our community. That makes it a community problem.

[Greedalox]

Snip

Your entire post paralells a social justice warrior Tumblr post. I get the sneaking suspicion you're making me out to be some self-centered bigot because we have differing views and I need to check my privilege. You also seem to be putting a lot of words in my mouth that I never said which is counter productive when you're trying to make a point. You're pretending the raiding world should be a Utopia where everyone is a top tier raider who can remember the mechanics at all times, without lapse in judgement EVER after hours of raiding (Funny enough, watch clear videos and you learn that there is actually a lack of need for communication, they're silent for a lot of it. It's for times when it won't be a clear or a sloppy mess occurs). So yes, communication does happen and having to go over information twice in a dire moment is a little...quirky?

There can be an amazing player who doesn't use voice chat, and I'm sure they'll be a wonderful contribution to a mixed group or a no-voicechat group.

[Ashkendor]

Hope nobody use teamspeak or mumble or vent still in 2016... Heard of Discord? If not run go learn anout it like ASAP!

I do not waste my time with High MS programs anymore and that looks like made out from windows 98. And turn down any FC or group that used anything else then Discord!

Or I can keep using Mumble, which we've been using for two years and works just as well for what we need it for - voice chat.

The only real advantage of Discord is a shiny text chat interface. If I'm going to communicate via text chat, I'll do it in game.

That feel when people start getting elitist over what VoIP you use, though. xD

[Mercutial]

(Funny enough, watch clear videos and you learn that there is actually a lack of need for communication, they're silent for a lot of it. It's for times when it won't be a clear or a sloppy mess occurs).

Thank you SO much for pointing this out. It appears most anti-VOIP's are under the impression that every mechanic is being called out and that inane background chatter is non-stop. Sometimes my raid group is so quiet during a run that I have to check to make sure I wasn't kicked out of Mumble... haha.

It's mostly for in-between pull strat making during progression or for when a run begins to go really sour and quick adjustments have to be made and more importantly, quickly communicated in order to save the run.

[Morbid]

Or I can keep using Mumble, which we've been using for two years and works just as well for what we need it for - voice chat.

The only real advantage of Discord is a shiny text chat interface. If I'm going to communicate via text chat, I'll do it in game.

That feel when people start getting elitist over what VoIP you use, though. xD

Lol and now the real war begins

[Cynric]

Snip

My quotes were pretty much exactly what you said. I actually cut out a few words after the "push to talk" thing. So if there were words being put in your mouth, please explain?


As for myself. I've both argued for, and against voice chat in this thread. I myself, will or won't use voice chat. I'm simply discussing the points in this thread. I don't know what a "social justice warrior tumblr post" even is. I also have never once said that everyone "should remember the mechanics at all times"
I'm just giving counter points. Which you haven't tried to argue, instead you referenced something about tumblr?

You're right though, a lot of times voice chat is 100% not needed. In most clears, and clear videos, no one even needs to talk to each other. So what was the point of even being on in the first place? I understand the need to go over information in a dire moment, however most of the time that's not what happens in voice chat.

Everyone usually just shouts expletives about how they screwed up and a wipe happens, or someone dies, or you joke about the incoming wipe. I'm sure some groups are able to come to react quick enough and communicate well enough in enough time to save a wipe? But do you assume this is how every run goes with voice chat? It's quite the opposite. Using voice does not always help save the run, nor does it mean your group is able to react quick enough to save the run just because they're using voice.

Voice just gives you that option. Would raid awareness also give you that option? Yes it would. I said in a previous post that voice chat is a crutch, but a helpful one that can indeed make a difference.

I've said more than a couple of times in here that it's just a tool. You can use it or not. It's how you use it that determines if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

[Greedalox]

Snip Snip

Okay, first off you make the claim that voice chat is a crutch, that's a different debate and besides the point but it does bring up an interesting thought which you brought up previously about how raid awareness is all you will ever need in a raid setting, to which I implored that the very premise of your notion speaks to peak performance for the hours of raid time. You called me out on not being understanding of peoples reasons for not using voice chat, so I ask that you try to understand peoples reasons as to why they may or may not be able to play at peak performance for the standard 2-3 hour raid session, as to which the "crutch" could help thwart a misguided attempt.

Don't speak so broadly about how voice-chat is just a shout fest, you may have had bad experiences but it would not be a tried, tested and true "crutch" for so many years if all it did was lower attention to the game and burst peoples ear drums. And yes, it may not save every run, but even 1/10 is better than the 0/10 you propose.

I've also said it's a tool, and I've also said you can use it or not. I merely implore that people shouldn't be shamed and reduced to "someone who needs a crutch" because they wish to have a full group who use it. There naturally are full voice chat groups, mixed groups and no voice chat groups, but why does it have to be that a full voice chat group is viewed negatively when the tools and groups for alternative means of raiding communication are available, aka typing and groups who use/prefer typing.

[AskaRay]

Honestly at this point in the discussion I'm less interested about the raiding and voice chat and more interested in a few points brought up earlier.

Lots of people seem to like to voice chat with friends they make in the game. For people who like to voice chat: when someone doesn't want to voice chat, do you feel more distant from them (if you like to voice chat), or do you accept it and move on? How do you view friends who voice chat and friends who don't? For people who don't: how do you feel when other players talk about voice chatting or when you are invited to voice chat? Do you still feel close to friends even if they don't hear your voice?

...it's all very interesting to me.

[Cynric]

snip

Then we have a misunderstanding. I was asking questions first and foremost. Second, In a previous post I've already stated that while it might be a crutch. If someone needs it then it's doing a good job. something along the lines of "if 6 bad players and 1-2 good ones calling things out can clear a raid then how is that a bad thing?"

There's nothing wrong with using voice chat to help you clear a raid.

My question is more so along the lines of. If using voice chat can help you clear a raid because you're more comfortable with it, then what's so wrong with including people who do not use voice chat because they are not comfortable with it?

I'm not speaking of your group in particular, I have no idea what rules or regulations you run by.

I'm saying that as of now, currently in our community, a lot of people believe that without voice chat raids can not be cleared. When that is very far from the truth and, that while a player might not want to participate in teampseak or what have you, that does not mean that they can not do the fight just as well without talking or hearing others talk.

I'm also saying that most things that voice chat is used for can usually be done without it if everyone is aware.

Does the perfect world exist where every single person is at the top end where there are zero mistakes? No of course not. You can't always be on your A game, however, if you accept that voice chat helps when you aren't, then you have to accept that it is indeed a crutch for imperfect play. There's nothing wrong with using it to help. Some people don't need it though, and shouldn't be forced into using it. Most importantly, there's nothing wrong with making mistakes and not playing perfectly.

Currently the way our community is in the Raiding scene though, you'd be hard pressed to find a group that doesn't require voice chat. (I've even seen FC's that require teamspeak for you to join, which I think is just weird.)

I've seen players turn down playing in groups for not having a TS/discord/vent/etc. set up already. Or for the group not wanting to use voice. Which makes finding or making a static for people who don't like to use voice chat harder.

[Felmyst]

Or I can keep using Mumble, which we've been using for two years and works just as well for what we need it for - voice chat.

The only real advantage of Discord is a shiny text chat interface. If I'm going to communicate via text chat, I'll do it in game.

That feel when people start getting elitist over what VoIP you use, though. xD

EWWW MUMBLE then you call yourself a raider? Have consideration for your friends, and consider that not everyone have your internet. Eww...Mumble...even the name is cheap. It is the worse on MS ever. High ping all day long.