Raiding and Teamspeak.

[CyrilLucifer]

I dislike how much social pressure there is to use it, honestly. I do most of my hardcore end-game events in XI rather than XIV with some friends I'm very close to and even they are pretty forceful in the 'must use, even when unnecessary' (eg, content we've been sleeping through for years.)

I wouldn't even dream of joining a TS-mandatory FC, that's just asking for drama, especially if your FC has more than 10 members. A static is a bit different; I'm not the type who is easily offended by a few lewd comments or jokes, but I also am not interested in voice chat with people I'm not friends with, which is entirely a possibility with statics in how XIV works.

[Ashkendor]

Half without half with, only those who need their programs need it to win a fight.

the good players don't.

This makes no sense. "Good players don't use voice chat?" Okay then.

Ridiculously blanket statement is ridiculously blanket.

[Jpec07]

This is one reason I don't use voice chat, I don't need to hear all that crap. I much prefer listening to my music over listening to people trying to be funny or making in appropriate jokes. I had my fill of this crap when I raided in WOW, don't need it here. Probably the one reason that I do not do any hardcore raiding.

I can see how being forced into a toxic environment could be horrible for the gameplay experience, though, and make you never want to do it again - and I'm sorry that was your only experience. I've never experienced it, but I've seen and heard recordings of demeaning, vitriolic, and even abusive raid leaders and guild/FC masters (at which point I would say to get out of that group as fast as you can, because even if you can't hear it, even reading that kind of toxicity is horrible). I'm sorry you experienced that. I've known server-leading raid groups that told jokes and talked about work and life and even philosophy while clearing heroic fights, and they were some of the most jovial people I knew.

For our group, it's all in good fun, though - I've always been clear that if anyone would rather I not wax punnily while I call the raid, I will hold back, because I know not everyone likes puns (aside on that note; I really like Mizzteq's video guides - she has the gift of pun). We have vent rules demanding respectful interaction, we don't require anyone to talk (just to listen), and we've actually kicked people out of the raid and even the guild/FC over poor Vent behavior (with certain things, like blatantly misogynistic, homophobic, racist, or otherwise insulting comments, having a zero-strike policy).

[MaeIsMean]

In the past, I was able to use voice chat when needed. Being a PST player means that a majority of my grouping time is done when my kids are awake, because they don't go to bed until around 8pm. And these days, when they get in bed, I want to unwind with some casual gameplay and some Netflix on another screen. And sometimes some wine. That means that voice chat is more of an annoyance than a benefit. My kids are noisy, and it makes it hard to follow along in voice chat (if there's such thing as auditory ADD, I have it). And I'd much rather watch a well acted show or movie than listen to someone wax nostalgic about something or someone else try to be clever and fail miserably.

My problem is that some FC's get to the point that if you're not in voice chat, you're completely left out of some things. There were literally people who just refused to type at all. My FC is thankfully not bad, there is a few voice chatters every night (that I've been told, again, i do not participate) but they don't exclude people who don't use voice chat. I understand and appreciate how much easier raids are when voice chat is in use, and I use it for that reason alone. I just don't get the "lets sit in here when i'm crafting and chit-chat" all night. And that's ok. Different strokes for different folks, so long as you don't leave people out who choose not to use voice chat!

[Eli85]

Here is the deal with VOIP. Some of it may have been covered already. But here it is.

A lot of times (even in raids) you hear a lot of chatter that you really don't want to hear. I don't mean commands or directions. But there's always that one, two, or three people who feel like everyone wants to hear about their day, what they're thinking, problems with the spouse etc. No, I do not want to hear about that. If VOIP consisted only of raid leader directions and instruction, it would be better. Alas, in these games there are too many socially deficient types who do not know when to shut up.

In terms of more practical usage (within raids) it is grossly overrated. In most non-world first situations, the raid leader is often talking to an extent that they are over compensating for the failures of their raid group. Switch to here, don't stand in this, stun this or that. If you have the right people in the group who do their jobs, not a single thing has to be said or coordinated (not even resurrections). Basically, VOIP is a crutch that allows people to raid who really shouldn't. If you come to a fight prepared, pay attention to everything around you, you do not need instructions over VOIP, period. North American players are just so inundated with "if you're not on VOIP you're doing it wrong." Which only became a thing because so many players are terrible at games, and the talkative raid leader became a means for them to perform marginally at the content.

Personally, I have heard enough social deficient banter in all my years of playing to do without it. Really glad that I don't do savage, so I never have to use it in this game.

[Mercutial]

Really glad that I don't do savage, so I never have to use it in this game.

So what's your point again? How is it "grossly overrated"?

[PArcher]

This makes no sense. "Good players don't use voice chat?" Okay then.

Ridiculously blanket statement is ridiculously blanket.

Especially considering the best players absolutely use it.

Sure the top players don't need it after things are on farm. Don't have to use food potions, or even a completely optimized rotation fie farming either.

But during progression? Every advantage is used by the best.

But...it doesn't mean it is absolutely necessary. Just like food or pots (or optimized gear abd rotations). A tool, nothing more

[Cynric]

Now hold on folks. Just because voice chat is a crutch doesn't mean you can't be a good player and use voice chat at the same time. Voice chat isn't needed for content, but as a crutch, communication can help a lot. The problem isn't Voice Chat itself being a crutch, the problem is the community has become to dependent on the use of it. Turn 5 unsync farm TS required <- why is this a thing? You have echo,nerfs, level 60 skills, HP and stats.

Some people with anxiety can not use Voice chat, some people don't like hearing others talk when they're trying to concentrate, some players are deaf or mute, some players just don't want to be that social. When we put a heavy demand on voice chat we tell those players they shouldn't bother doing raids for x/y/z problem.
.

I did most of coil when it was relevant, I've raided in other games, and Voice chat is not needed. We did fine without it. In fact my FC that I raided with back in those days had a no voice chat rule. If we absolutely needed on the fly communication for something we created a macro.

Voice chat is definitely a great tool, like a DPS meter is a good tool, do we need voice chat? No of course not. Does it help? Of course it does. Are there cons to using voice chat? You have trolls,loudmouths, people who take rage to extremes and insult other members, people who hear a girl talk and act like they've never spoken to one before, people who curse you out for missing a mechanic , or people who make annoying sounds, people might tell someone their voice sounds terrible.

There's a huge pro of fast communication, but there are a lot of cons involving the community, and you have to ask random people, including those with Anxiety to jump on to TS, Vent, Discord, with people they don't know, and if they can't for XYZ reason. You kick them, they could have been a really good player capable of playing without voice chat, but you'll never know until you try.

Which is the whole crux of what I said. Voice chat isn't bad, if you use it , it can be a great tool. It also isn't needed , not having voice chat does not prevent you from doing mechanics, it does not prevent you from knowing the fight, and not having it does not take away your ability to type. If you want to kick someone because they refuse to login to voice chat, instead maybe you should actually see how good they are first.

I could only imagine this conversation

A: Get on TS, it's required for thordan.
B:No it isn't I don't ever use TS for this fight -links heavensward weapon/item-
A:If you don't get on TS we'll kick you
B:Well I'm deaf,can't hear very well, have no headset.
A:You have to get on TS or we're going to kick you.
B:I'm telling you I know the fight perfectly
A kicks B from the party

Later C joins, gets on Voice chat and they wipe 6 times because C was carried through by his FC.
A kicked B, a player capable of clearing A1/2S and Thordan ex, without the use of voice chat for player C, who was able to use voice chat but was only carried through fights.

This is only one possibility of how reliant people are on voice chat, and unwilling and unfaltering to go into a run without all 8 players on Voice chat.(though it's okay for their friends to be in with the Mic and sound muted)

Yes Voice chat is great, but players getting kicked for not wanting to get on TS, despite having the proof they're good players and never getting to show it happens all the time. The problem isn't the use of voice chat, the problem is a lot the community forces it's use, even on players who don't need it, don't want to use it, or can't use it.

Mute? Kicked. Deaf?Kicked, or can't join TS required parties. By saying voice chat is 100% required you potentially cut off portions of the playerbase from raid content, when honestly it's not as necessary as you might feel

[Eli85]

So what's your point again? How is it "grossly overrated"?

It's grossly overrated because it is not needed to succeed in the content (contrary to popular belief). In fact, for players who know what they're doing, there is so many more drawbacks to VOIP than pros. When you know your job, VOIP is mostly just inane babble that you would rather not hear.

[Judge_Xero]

I didn't start the thread to stick it to anyone. I don't disagree with the use of VOIP at all. I'm just wondering how people with things like social anxiety or hearing impairment deal with these issues since a lot of static these days put on the "TS required" adds.

Since it was mentioned, how many people have cleared insane content like A3S/A4S without using VOIP and if you did use it, how much of a difference did it make? Do you still use it for farming?
Also just to throw it out there, I would like to think me and my missus weren't carried, we're a tank/healer combo and our former raid leader said he's struggle to find a good replacement main tank.

Typically people with high levels of Social Anxiety don't do Raids, due to the level of social interaction required to complete the task.
Those that still attempt it are fine to just "listen in".

So it probably isn't as high a percentage as you think that VOIP would "cut off".

In the case of someone being deaf....well you'd just have to discuss it with the group. Just be prepared to have some alternate form of communication planned, not a big deal.

I have not heard of any Raid groups that have completed A3S/A4S not using VOIP. Even the most elite groups used it on top of any other advantages they could use. A3S would be difficult due to a synchronized stun rotation that is required to pass certain mechanics, so I'm sure even on Farm it would be used.

Also just to throw it out there, I would like to think me and my missus weren't carried, we're a tank/healer combo and our former raid leader said he's struggle to find a good replacement main tank.

It doesn't sound like you were carried. It's just too bad you weren't able to figure out some way for the missus to have a fair advantage. Although A1S/A2S wouldn't really require any VOIP as a healer due to being able to discuss Prey mechanics prior to the fight. The only thing I could think of in A2 would be ground AOE's being called out as it's easy to tunnel vision in that fight. So it's possible that lack of VOIP wasn't even a concern.

It's grossly overrated because it is not needed to succeed in the content (contrary to popular belief). In fact, for players who know what they're doing, there is so many more drawbacks to VOIP than pros. When you know your job, VOIP is mostly just inane babble that you would rather not hear.

OP is talking about Raids. You may not know anything about that.